God Changing

[chara]

I don't really understand your post. I'm neither the Crusader guildwiz nor in charge of any faith, so if there is some helping it is not in my hands. I'm just stating my personal opinion, which is that it doesn't make much sense to me for a fanatic worshipper to take following a different god lightly from an IC perspective.

To use a real world analogy (which I am loathe to do, as worship in-game is a whole 'nother ball of wax, but hey), if I am a fanatic Catholic, I might respect the work of a fanatic Protestant, I might even share a church (as they do in the show, The Gilmore Girls, where a small town has one church for two congregations), work together on common goals, hold get-togethers and fundraisers together - but it would certainly affect me if a member of my congregation switched and became a Protestant instead. I would be glad that they didn't become a Satan-worshipper, but I would not be happy.

How much stronger would this feeling be in a world where Protestants would literally support another god, and would give real and tangible power to that god (and away from my own) by becoming a worshipper?

What would even be the point in-game of having two separate gods if it didn't matter to the players, or to the gods themselves, which was worshipped?

I don't see either the sense or the advantage to it - but for those of you who do, feel free to tell me what I am overlooking.

[Blizt]

Actually, I have no clue what YOU are trying to say.

Why does it not make sense Crusaders follow Taniel AND Evren?

[Abharsair]

Let's quote a famous book:

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other."

And that's how it is in this MUD. You can honor as many gods as you want and you can even respect them (e.g. Evren as a Taniel follower), but you can only worship (serve) one and dedicate yourself to him/her. And that's why the Crusader rules are pretty clear:

You can only worship Taniel, the bringer of order and justice, or Evren, the giver of life.

Please note the distinct "or", which is not quite the same as an "and". Nowhere is mentioned that you have to worship both gods equally, which means that if you really want to worship two gods equally, it is your personal choice as a player which will also result in the appropriate consequences.

[chara]

Actually, I have no clue what YOU are trying to say.

Why does it not make sense Crusaders follow Taniel AND Evren?

Err, which part of the lengthly explanations and concrete examples that I've already given was difficult to understand?

[Blizt]

Yes and No.

After re-reading it, I see your point.

Now for me, considering the background of the Crusaders it seems more apparent to me that Taniel and Evren work together.
Everything the Crusaders do is "for the Lord and Lady" Not for "The Lord OR Lady (choose your favorite and insert)"

From an IC perspective, for me at least, it makes more sense to worship both.
Probably not to the extent of trying to get full faith/favour in both, but a considerable amount.

Charas example was a good one, but considering its not based in a world were people KNOW there are many gods and those gods give their followers powers and abilities, and those TWO gods didnt come to one person and give them a holy task to fullfill and blah blah blah and so forth.

Now the rules say Taniel OR Evren, but from an IC standpoint, you should follow them both. The Crusaders exist for a cause. Taniel AND Evren came together and alligned to give them their holy duty. They didnt say "You can follow one of us, but it doesnt matter, because your tasks will still be the same" The tasks they give the Crusaders seems to be a joined effort, not just the efforts of one or the other. Taniel followers dont act any differantly, and Evren followers dont act another way. They both act like Crusaders. There are no seperate tasks for the 2 differant followers.

Now Charas example mentioned how she wouldnt be happy to see her friend switch from protestant to catholic. I dont see how this would work with the Crusaders, because from an IC standpoint they respect both. They understand that both are needed. They are under the impression that Taniel and Evren are working together, united. It doesnt matter which god they worship, they will still be serving the cause, the calling they received from BOTH of these deities.

These are just my personal opinions of course. If someone was a fanatical Taniel or Evren follower only, they probably wouldnt be a Crusader, they would probably be a Priest or Druid, considering a few of the Crusaders views and actions might clash with their "monotheistic" only views.

[chara]

Yeah, actually when one goes into great depth as to why something is totally illogical, and the response is "But why??!!" it is a little difficult to understand. Perhaps if you read the contents of the two posts where I have already said why it doesn't make sense, you'll find the answer.

Some high points include:

Each of the gods is actively seeking followers to strengthen themselves and to advance their own interests in the world.

and

A mortal who switches from Taniel to Evren literally weakens Taniel and all of his followers - you don't think that He would consider that important?

and

if I am a fanatic Catholic, I might respect the work of a fanatic Protestant, I might even share a church (as they do in the show, The Gilmore Girls, where a small town has one church for two congregations), work together on common goals, hold get-togethers and fundraisers together - but it would certainly affect me if a member of my congregation switched and became a Protestant instead. I would be glad that they didn't become a Satan-worshipper, but I would not be happy.

and perhaps even

What would eWhat would even be the point in-game of having two separate gods if it didn't matter to the players, or to the gods themselves, which was worshipped?

A discussion would include counter-examples or some logical reason why a god would be happy to have someone betray him or her and weaken his or her earthly and other-worldly powers, or doing as I invited and explaining the benefits to the god and to the player. However, asking "Why does it not make sense Crusaders follow Taniel AND Evren?" after some 400 words of explanation of why it doesn't make sense to me is somewhere beyond baffling.

And to answer your second question - it makes no sense to me for a Crusader to follow two gods or to switch gods.

[Blizt]

Some high points include:

Each of the gods is actively seeking followers to strengthen themselves and to advance their own interests in the world.

To me, it looks like the "Lord and Lady" arent working seperately for their own personal interests, but combined to give the Crusaders a common goal.
If they were working seperately, they would have directed people to the Druids of Elor or the Taniel Clergy, since those are 2 seperate factions working for that gods goals alone, and nothing else.


A mortal who switches from Taniel to Evren literally weakens Taniel and all of his followers - you don't think that He would consider that important?

Well, like I said before, and it goes back to the same argument, the Lord and Lady both came to Aradain themselves and gave him the task. If they were working for their own power or reasons, they wouldnt be so united.
They probably wouldnt have even came together to come up with this task if they were so worried about their own personal goals and power.

if I am a fanatic Catholic, I might respect the work of a fanatic Protestant, I might even share a church (as they do in the show, The Gilmore Girls, where a small town has one church for two congregations), work together on common goals, hold get-togethers and fundraisers together - but it would certainly affect me if a member of my congregation switched and became a Protestant instead. I would be glad that they didn't become a Satan-worshipper, but I would not be happy.

Well, considering they are fighting for the EXACT same cause and goals, the goals of both gods combined, why should it matter? You convert from one or the other, but you are still doing the exact same thing, and fighting for the exact same cause. If Taniel and Evren were going to get so pissed off that a Crusader follows one of them and not the other, it doesnt make sense they both came to the first Lord Marshall together and told him the tasks.

[Abharsair]

Well, considering they are fighting for the EXACT same cause and goals, the goals of both gods combined, why should it matter? You convert from one or the other, but you are still doing the exact same thing, and fighting for the exact same cause. If Taniel and Evren were going to get so pissed off that a Crusader follows one of them and not the other, it doesnt make sense they both came to the first Lord Marshall together and told him the tasks.

Having one common goal does not mean identical believes and all goals being identical. Let me use an example. The Soviet Union and the USA had during World War II an identical goal: Defeating Germany. They teamed up and assisted each other. However, both countries had completely different systems and ideologies. According to your statement, it shouldn't have mattered to both countries if you switched citizenship back and forth, but you bet it would have. Also, even if you had sympathies for Communists and Capitalists at the same time, you couldn't have been both. You had to pick one side even though you shared a goal.

[Blizt]

Well, thats a good real world point.

I supose what I am trying to say is a Crusader should sacrifice to both.
At least I think so. It makes the most sense to me from an IC standpoint.
I guess it goes back to the faith and favour issue.
I believe Crusaders should have favour in both, but it would be impossible to put your faith in both.

[adanath]

Because of how I feel on this matter I won't state my opinion any further.

[chara]

Wow, that was really ... nasty and petty. Sorry you disagree, but you could state your opinion MUCH more politely.

[adanath]

Indeed it was. Sorry about that. I don't agree at all with it. It won't change so no big deal. So I will refrain from posting further about it.