Disguise

Message

golub · #1 Post by **golub** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:16 pm

Hello hello,

Ok, here is my argument of why to remove the disguise feature. I bet it's not popular, especially not among thieves, but I'll state my thoughts on it. If someone convince me otherwise, I wouldn't mind

First of all, I think the disguise feature gives the thieves a too easy life. They can do everything without any risk. Shoplifting, assasinate, pick pocket. If you get caught, there's no risk of a measure against them. Shopkeepers do not report them. Thieves get huge amounts of gold and thus it becomes of no value. Anyone can gather a hundred or so in at least in say, two weeks, if you're bad. There follows, noone will ever hire thieves for jobs because noone can pay them. An offer of 300 gold coins is just an inconvinience for the thief. Though 50 gold coins might be the life-saving of an experienced character.. The thieves can also assassinate and fear no trial against them. And it actually leaves me somewhat bored because there's no challenge :/ I have to start stealing without disguise to get some kind of a rush. 95% of the true crimes never reaches the judge and they haven't got a chance going there either! I think all would benefit from having this super-feature removed.

Without disguise, I see:

- People hiring thieves for jobs. Assasinations, thefts, infiltrations. We have the abilities but so far noone even thinks about this as an option.
- Thieves getting caught! (Fun, sure. And I hope also everyone realized how fun it is not to always PK.. Payment, open trials, interrogations and such is all fun. Maybe the shopkeepers wouldn't report 100% of the crimes though, only for the expensive items or at probability or something.)
- Thieves not getting caught

(yes, this will actually become fun if there's a change)
- Much more roleplaying opportunities
- People will know their enemy, so thieves will have to use other kinds of intelligence to stay alive. They already have enough of the skills they need. At the same time, the thieves will have more fun.

I think all the MUD will benefit from this, not only those who are not thieves, but also those who are not. It'll make the life of a thief not always so one-sided, independent and risk-free.

poGolub

vurdijak · #2 Post by **vurdijak** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:54 pm

I didnt know any of this about the disguise feature, but I always wondered
if something like that existed. If it is so foolproof, why not keep the feature
but make it check against awareness somehow. I dont know how it currently
works, but maybe the skill could only be used once in a very long time...and maybe the disguise could fade unpredictably? Without knowing
much, its hard to suggest more.

But the whole issue of making too much gold....theres always poor rangers
to give it to

Vurdijak

ps Yes 50 gold is a large sum for me...no laughing

**<----------thought it was funny i typed that in, so ill leave it

yegerfin · #3 Post by **yegerfin** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:48 am

Perhaps not complete removal, but ability to check/remove disguise in some way, or bad ones showing up?

jezz · #4 Post by **jezz** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:18 am

I agree with poGolub, although complete removal seems a bit harsh.

Yeah, currently disguise is one of the most powerful features of GEAS. Not entering into details of it, I'll just tell you that if you kill a disguised thief, the ghost is still disguised

I don't know if disguise is a skill, if so, I think it would be nice to add awareness, appraise or simply int or wisdom to be factors for the person looking at the thief to discover him, or at least know it's a disguise. Death, or a powerful cut and such could also remove the disguise, the same way if a shopkeeper catches a disguised thief, there could be a chance that when the thief is running out, the shopkeeper catches the thief barely and keeps the disguise, seeing the real identity.

I dunno... but as poGolub said, thieves nowadays do everything serious disguised, so they never fear anything... while they are not disguised, they can mix potions, mine and sit at the crossroads giggling and smirking.

#5 Post by **Abharsair** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:09 am

I don't think removing disguise alltogether is a good idea, and therefore I object to that idea. On the other hand, I agree that disguise shouldn't be fool-proof either, and yes, we're working on changing that, but due to the restrictions of the mudlib it's not that trivial, and changes have to be made very carefully (we don't want to screw up the thieves' identity due to faulty code), so don't hold your breath just yet.

There is, however, the "undisguise" command for everyone, including a help file for it, and that command existed for years. So there is and was a way to discover who is disguised and who isn't. What I didn't know, though, was the "feature" that ghosts can still wear fake beards and noses, so I changed that.

genesis · #6 Post by **genesis** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:59 pm

Always when possible, I use "undisguise".

I know I'm paranoid.

tarlon · #7 Post by **tarlon** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:04 am

I still think the most important change would be that at least a few npc react on thieving actions. At the moment npc`s react on all kind of pickpocket and if you try to steal from shops. But they donÂ´t care if you break into their house. And steal all from their chest. Perhaps the problem could be solved by making inhabitants of a house shout for guards. If you enter their rooms or at least block you getting stuff from the chest like nibblers do. Or accuse you like shopkeepers do.
But i heard it is not that easy to code.
Olaf po Tarlon and another char

Hi,
I donÂ´t know how you manage to earn 300 gold coins that easy but my char isnÂ´t able to i am happy at the moment if i get a couple of gold coin from a tour. If i am lucky a get 30+ but thinking of easy earned 300 gold coins is something i am not able to imagine at the moment.

Delia · #8 Post by **Delia** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:06 pm

just commenting on earning money...even with mining its pretty hard and tedious...for 2-3 hours of work you'll end up with about 20-50 gp. Considering it's about the only good source of steady income presently, even if its really tedious, it's still pretty lucrative. It would be good if there were other sources for making money (honestly) too...but this could be a whole another topic. Returning to disguise, I didn't even know about "undisguise", guess I've just been plain blind.

tarlon · #9 Post by **tarlon** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:17 pm

mining and selling gems is very good sorce of money as well

Dantari · #10 Post by **Dantari** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:48 am

maybe...make disguise have a 70% chance of revealing yourself or your intentions when you DO something like attacking the shopkeeper.

So, if your disguised and you tried to attack a shopkeeper, they have 60% chance to run**away (a bit like mud slay then sac corpse to simulate that) totally after sensing or gauging what you might be up to.

So there could be that chance that shopkeepers will notice who the disguised person is and they could start shouting out your name like "I heard about you! You must be Dantari!", goes on to shout "Dantari is a thief in disguise!!" while they run**away.

Other than that, disguise could remain as a good way to stay "plain" while in the background.

isengoo · #11 Post by **isengoo** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:19 pm

I know that disguise exists, but I don't know how it really works and why it's so complicated to change it. Perhaps if the players were told why these things are so, we could help out with some ideas to alleviate the problem?

Delia · #12 Post by **Delia** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:18 am

There could be an increasing chance of a disguised character to be discovered if he/she spends time in a room with other characters. Disguise could detoriate with time, needing "reapplying". INT/WIS/Awareness checks to spot the disguised one out without resorting to feeling him/her out.

Disguise is a very cool feature the little what I've seen it, didn't know it was that fool-proof. Still, even if its so powerful, it has a severe downside to it too...it can be quite easy as a player to know(or atleast have a good, reliable hunch) if someone is disguised or not, so it relies on good-judgement from the player to be effective too, all the NPC's aside for a moment. I've found those situations fun though...knowing that someone is someone else but Delia only possibly harboring the slightest of doubts. IC, moving from that doubt to full realization can be a really hazy area though...

gen · #13 Post by **gen** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:56 am

Disguise have been changed quite some time ago. Yeah it is powerfull but it isn`t failsave anymore. I don`t want to give to much hints. But disguise isn`t completly failsave anymore.
Gen

tessa · #14 Post by **tessa** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:31 pm

I don't use disguise anymore so I don't know how strong my opinion would hold, but having to reapply certain parts of a disguise which could degrade from time or other reasons doesn't sound like all that bad of an idea to me. Of course, I think current disguise users should get more of a say on that than others. But for what it's worth, if I still used disguise, I wouldn't mind having to refresh my disguise every so often.

As for disguise being fool-proof, it's not. Like Gen, I won't reveal anything, but there are ways to work with it now.