deadly critical hits happen to often

[gen]

Hi Hi.
Yeah Yeah i know many guys would see a deadly crit on me but thats not the question.

I think deadly crits happen way to often. Even with my low skills i get deadly crits anyway. Especialy some skills seem to have an extremly high crit range even on mediocre skills ( about 50) skills like slam,impale,knee,elbow. As far as i remember spin is nice for crits as well but it has at least a very long cooldown. leap as well but usualy the chance is higher to drop your weapon than to recive a crit. unlike the other skills i mentioned you fumble them extremly selden. I heard from a few other players that they think the same so i wanted to know what you all think about it?

[Delia]

I don't think deadly crits happen that often, atleast with Delia. She is a decent fighter with solid physical stats and I seldom see any killer crits delivered. Of course poorly armoured foes start to bleed like pigs at the sight of her but anything decently armoured and skilled stands a good chance and rarely even suffers a severed hand. Of course, things start to be quite different if you start to think about how well dedicated dwarf, human and tshahark fighters deliver crits. All have very good strength and most often use heavy weapons too, so its no wonder. If a said fighter happens to bash something with poor armours and low constitution I very well expect to see some bloody pulp

[gen]

With my other char most fights end due to a crit but even with gen i recive a large amount of crits. Even managed to criticaly hit trolls or ogres. Ogres those nasty but stupid fighter from what i imagine they are tought but with my other char nearly every encounter they die to neck break and even with gen .... he has extremly low str mediocre fighting skills (specials around 50 to 70) I get a large amount of crits okay i have fairly decent weapons . Deadly crits should be something extremly seldem. But they are more like common crits. Especialy in Player fights it is annoying. who enjoys to die to a critical hit?. I didn`t die to a critical hit yet i have to admin. But i killed with a crit once ask ralph it was challanging? i don`t think so. I backstabed him than leap ...cut throat. It was simple boring.... . I prefered much more my last fight against hsparks and tehanu.

I remember dealing crits with a skill of 15 in knee with my other char even against high con monsters like trolls and ogres.

[kaspars]

Actually I lost count how often my head was splitted or throat was opened even beeing in mood wimpy, with shield, protecting head and with quite good skills (at least for all kinds of defence skills).

[aragog]

Same for me. I lost count how often my throat was cut, ripped out, and so on. Once by a mole and most of the time when beeing in defensive mood with shield and even when my opponent was blind.

I agree that lethal crits should be reallyreallyreally seldom when it comes to PvP as it simply kills fun.

poAragog

[Delia]

Any specifics? What monsters usually deal kill crits? What is your CON? Who of the PC's do the same? As I see it the more you invest into CON(armour helps A LOT too) the more you are protected against critical hits, even with really, REALLY good two handed weapons(+ good skill) the damage range is quite wide. Most often the hits are negligible but sometimes luck rolls your way and you manage to deal obliterating hits. I just usually tend to avoid any monsters/players capable of easily doing lethal crits if its at all possible.
So far to my experience is that dedicated fighters with epic/immortal STR+ with skills of 90+ equipped with good weapons tend to deal massive damage, no matter what. Hence, the current ratio of lethal crits in PvP.

Should damage/crits be nerfed? I don't think so. I like the feeling of danger everytime I go against someone wielding a two-handed weapon or capable of magical means of doing damage. Geas combat system seems like a scissors/paper/stone system. Every mode of combat has a solid strength and a fatal weakness. Its up to your character development and your team how pronounced said features are.

Well...in the end this is just my opinion but I really like how you need to be careful in fights/be wary about experienced fighters. I'd hate to see fighting reduced to "I'm hit, so I lose X hp." Infact, I would be VERY happy if one could have a chance, no matter how small, do deal lethal crits in combat. Even the most simplest of peasants can drive steel inside the battle-scarred mercenary if presented with the opportunity, IMHO.

[isengoo]

It seems like in order to make some mobs more challenging, they are given a big twohander and that's the end of it. I'd really like to see less of this.

[Delia]

It seems like in order to make some mobs more challenging, they are given a big twohander and that's the end of it. I'd really like to see less of this.

Yea...would be cool if monsters could utilize more from the wide range of options available in the combat system, but I guess that would be a lot of work.

[aragog]

Taking a look at the answers it seems that evils seem to be much more unlucky than others when it comes to the 'random (or not so random?) lethal critical'.

Just my feeling.

poAragog

[tessa]

It might have something to do with the fact that most goodies are dwarves and tshaharks that focus on physical stats and wield massive spears with both hands, as opposed to a couple dark/elves, humans, and a halfling that probably sacrifice some physical stats in favour of mental stats.

(or not so random?)

I'd be curious to know what you meant by that, too.

[Delia]

most goodies are dwarves and tshaharks that focus on physical stats and wield massive spears with both hands

Yea, I can agree on that...when a tshahark with nearly maxed fighting skills and physical stats comes charging your way you can bet its not a long fight. The very few times Delia has fought Blizt have been very amusing to watch too.

[Blizt]

My personal experiances with this subject:

Most of the time I have dealt a deadly crit to someone it has been to a person that was accomplished in other areas, and not really fighting. There were a few exceptions though.

My first fight against Jezz, I was 1-2 days old, and had 35-40 axe skill.
I was in mood wimpy. I wielded the long twohanded axe, and smashed his vocal chords. The day before, I cut off Axstreams hand or arm in a duel.

All of the other times, it seemed rather justified since I was a rather highly skilled dwarven warrior, and my enemies seemed to have either lower skills/stats or didnt concentrate on fighting as much as I did. The enemies that did however usually sent Blizt running away with his beard between his legs.

Personally, I like the way things are now. Even if you aren't a massive dwarf/tshahark with a huge two-handed weapon you can still take out your enemy rather easily. Every race/guild has something they can excell at in combat I think, and I would try to find to it and stick to it.

I have seen some amazing darkelf warriors that could take out any Crusader they fought. In fact, they won 90 percent of the time. Not always with much strategy, but with just mele combat.

Whats the point in fighting if you know you are always going to win.
Thats not very exciting.

[Vargrahim]

*zzz*

1) The combat system is fair (applies to all other "but you are stronger than me"-type discussions as well)

2) The combat system isn't always perfect or realistic

3) I have somewhat above "mediocre" combat skills and I rarely crit. And I just don't belive that you get so "much" crits at those levels (50). And dwarves/tshaharks with with two-handers should do critical hits. When it's still at 50, you fail quite often too, which sometimes results in a negative effect..

[Abharsair]

I think some people should re-read Gen's original post. He wasn't complaining about being critted too often (and he's a halfling), but he stated that he think he crits too often with his specials. Amazingly enough (or maybe not) it turned into a "Yes, I think I get killed too often by criticals, and that's why they should happen more rarely." discussion.

I will gladly discuss Gen's point, but I won't discuss the latter one, because that's beating a dead horse. I'll just say that criticals are the specialty of strong fighters with large weapons, just like miracles are the specialty of clerics, and backstabs are the specialty of rogues. Naturally, if you fight one of those groups, you'll die increasingly to what they specialize in, and there have been plenty of threads in which various groups complained about the powers of the other's. Use the search function of the forum for several not-so-pretty examples.

Also, the combat system is carefully balanced. Reducing the likelihood to cause a critical would give lightly armored fighters an advantage, and they already win more often in a one vs. one situation than the heavily armored one (your personal experience might differ, but we tested many different situations and setups, and the data showed what I just said). To avoid this imbalance it would require a general reduction of combat damage altogether, as well as the reduction of miracle effectiveness and just about everything else which causes damage. Which in return will make combat slower and decreases the likelihood to kill someone without blocking/ambushing him.

Finally, if you don't want to suffer criticals (and are willing to fight slower, hit less, get exhausted more quickly and fall down more often) then improve your constitution and wear heavy armors. It's not as if you can't change anything. It's just a question whether you are willing to do it.

[jezz]

Hi! Just wanting to comment some things on this topic:

1) I liked to read that I'm not the only person that thinks that to make a npc challenging every wizard gives him a two-hander weapon. It's just too annoying that the risk on fighting a npc is based exclusively on the chance that the npc can roll a lucky hit and kill you in one hit when he/she shouldn't be a threat if wielding "normal" weapons.

2) Agree with Abh. The topic of "my armours suck and I get critted too much is really old. Everyone has suffered crits one way or another and everyone has stared at his screen one time or another thinking... "Qué cojones... ?"

3) What about an addition to the combat system? What if consecutive hits to a zone would cause that zone to be "clumsier"? For example, many normal cuts at the right hand would cause the weapon wielded there to be harder to swing, hitting less often. Or many hits on a leg would make your enemy slower and not dodging your hits so often. That could turn the "dual wielding" strategy on GEAS into an actually possible "tree branch".

Because nowadays, if you don't wield a two-handed weapon you are:
a) Wearing a shield on the other
b) Screwed

My 2cc Working TOOOOOO MUCH lately but I hope to be back soon

[Abharsair]

In reply to Jezz:

There was a similar idea in this thread, and I kind of liked it. One could give the various hitlocations something like "hitpoints" and once a certain cumulative damage threshold has been exceeded, the body part stops working. The problem with that idea is that it would have to be balanced very carefully, because we really don't want a bunch of dagger-wielding guys who just aim at the head and tickle it until it explodes. And there's no better way to piss off a playerbase than by messing with the combat system and screwing it up.

[isengoo]

Is it possible to reduce the critical damage modifier? Or is that based solely on stats? Maybe putting in a modifier on only the crits of twohanders would cure what ails ya. I think we can all agree that it sucks to get oneshotted by anything, even when you have similar stats and skills to the opponent. These are directly caused by lucky crits from twohanded weapons (I think, correct me please if I am mistaken). Putting a modifier on just those (critical twohand hits) might help balance things out, without ruining the overall effectiveness of the weapons.

Note - I'm talking about PvE and PvP.

edit: I'll also say that I would gladly give up my big twohanded crits for something more fair. I think they make my fights too easy, and they don't give me any chance for skillups.

[Delia]

I like it the way it is and it would be a shame if there would be a lot of tweaking. I like the feeling of danger the current system gives, and if lethal critical hits would be lessened there is little that can kill Delia unless I want her to die (she is VERY GOOD at fleeing). Sometimes I feel she suffers very little critical hits as it is, but then again, she is quite experienced, so its hard for me to tell. I could prattle something weird all day long but I'll just end it saying, leave the insta-kill crits! I love 'em, to deal or suffer from, either way.

The hitlocations have hp thingy sounds cool...but very hard to implement though as it can either be very good or very, very bad, atleast according to my experiences in another mud.

[luminier]

in my opinion unless yuo have like 3 or more people hunting one person it is just way to easy to flee and make yourself disappear. the one hit crits really help just end things instead of prolonging it over a series of small battles which no one is in any real danger of dying. iunno if that makes sense sorry.

but no i don't think lethal crits happen too often. i think it's fairly balanced. if you have a good armour skill or good deflect it shouldn't happen anyways. then again feints technically "go beneath" defences so i guess no matter how high your skils there your in trouble.

I remember when luminier was in the crusaders and somehow killed kaspars even though it was obvious that kaspars was way way out of my league at that point. however that was at the neck and that was also a feint.


i guess what im trying to say in all this babble and nonsense is that the system that exists is good in my opinion.

[nogem]

Told myself "I'll just read, no replies today..."

So much for that idea.

I think most players are familiar with the fact my character is basically the last heavily armoured freak walking around the game. That being said - against mobs I do get some pretty nice crits on a good day. Against players is a completely different nightmare.

Nogem PvP fights generally end up one of two ways:
1. The other player is insanely under skilled/statted to Nogem and gets critted out. See the wiki for his one and only PvP kill, which I'll admit to this day was plainly the result of a severe OOC mistake on my part. It shouldn't have been done, period.

2. Nogem dies. See the long and far from complete list of deaths in the same wiki.


Light and medium armour characters can run in circles playing "pick the hole to stab in" around Nogem all day. Unless he has help in a PvP fight pretty much any character who is near him in skills or stats is going to lay a heavy butt kicking all over him, and he's too freaking heavy to run away. The ONLY chance he really has in those situations is that chance of a freakish crit taking place. In all seriousness, I really haven't had great luck with that against other characters.

Like the idea of body part damage, but have to agree with Abh's caution about it. Guys with knives tickling me to death is excessive already.

I strongly encourage those who disagree with the points I've made to make a serious attempt at a heavy armour character prior to spouting "No...no....you're stupid". Even if the last part of that statement is true, heavy armour is still something to experience.