Informing NPCs

[kaspars]

While I like the new feature about NPCs telling about people they saw and showing their directions, I`m a bit troubled that from now even NPCs join the hunt after few remaining sathos and their followers.
Since our reputation is screwed up in .. hmm .. all areas, we wont be able to access this feature anyway and as I see it right now - to avoid hunting we will have to remove all witnesses in our way
Even tundra barbarians consider us damned souls .. I could agree with this point of view if only it would not put sathos in situation that now even one step outside Asador we have `messengers` telling our enemies about our movements.

[tessa]

Well, the life of an evil is supposed to be hard anyway.

But, two things come to mind when thinking of your new predicament:

1. Darkness is your friend. This should cloak you from most NPCs.

2. I can't think of very many npcs that dwell outside of city walls. Of the few I can think of, I know even less that can't be bypassed. And of those, I can think of even less that can't be easily executed or blinded with darkness.

3. From what I remember, it takes high reputation for an NPC to reveal directions to a PC. Is there a way to gain such a high reputation with these barbarians? And that's not a rhetorical question, but an honest one, because I'm not sure of ways to gain a high reputation with them.

[kaspars]

tessa wrote

Well, the life of an evil is supposed to be hard anyway.

Yes, I have heard this many times and I love this standard reply so much. It eliminates all possible objections and always gives opportunity to add a bit more to make life of an evil even harded.

In case if this sounds like I am lessening wizs work - no, I`m not. I just want to ensure that feature is not implemented in a way that it simply gives more possibilities for `good` side without paying a price.

[aragog]

Furthermore, talking about barbarians - those guys should be somehow our friends, at least those who live so close to Asador. Which should make it pretty impossible for 'goodies' to have a good reputation with them.

[tessa]

Yes, I have heard this many times and I love this standard reply so much.

The reason I say it is because I've played an evil char. that was an enemy of over half the mud, hunted after for about 80% of the time I played, had no allies to call on, none to talk to (that didn't have the intent to kill or threaten or snitch, at least), nor really a place to safely hide away.

Despite that, I never considered an evil "too hard" to play. And I would have given very much to have a guildhall or reliable city to hide in, or allies or miracles to call upon when situations got tough, or even a friend to talk to every now and then. So, considering that, I tend to be a bit harsh for people that have a better situation and consider themselves worse off.

I just want to ensure that feature is not implemented in a way that it simply gives more possibilities for `good` side without paying a price.

It can be used against them, too, which can be a dangerous price as I imagine goodies pass by npcs far more often than evils. So you can't ask npcs yourself, but that doesn't stop you from bribing/coercing someone to go check around for you. From personal experience, it seems most people abhor Tanielites far more than Sathonites, so I would be sincerely surprised if you could find no one that would spy for you.

[jezz]

Hi all,

Overally I like this change, and I guess it must have been a hell for whoever coded it, so congratulations. It adds a big chunk of strategy for those chars that want to be stealthy, since now we have to also keep in mind where can we cross a npc that could inform our enemies.

So thank you for the change, I'm sure most of us will enjoy it.

Now comes the negative part:

- The life of an evil should be hard. Yes, it should, in novels, movies and videogames, the evil guy bypasses all kinds of difficulties to become what he is. That's ok and that's cool, and to be true, that's what keeps me from becoming a happy neutral powergaming char (I'm already a powergaming char though).

This point though, has a flaw: I'm in favour of making the life of an evil char harder than the one of a goodie, because we know how much sucks to be a goodie, BUT, that does not mean that you should make the life of an evil harder and the life of a goodie much easier.

- I consider it a bad habit to comment on how easy is to be an evil when you have never been a "known evil". I could create a char right now that would kill faeries and I'd probably have the knowledge about the MUD to hide my char from goodies for a long time. Becoming what Kaspars or Aragog are is far away from what MANY of the rest of evils chars I've met have been. And trust me, there are FEW evil chars in GEAS.


All in all, right now it is true that this change mainly hurts the evil side. I'd have patience though, since as we have been said, the new continent would provide evils with a "tasty" portion of land for their control, so maybe then this feature will be of great help.

My 2cc

[kaspars]

tessa wrote

The reason I say it is because I've played an evil char. that was an enemy of over half the mud, hunted after for about 80% of the time I played, had no allies to call on, none to talk to (that didn't have the intent to kill or threaten or snitch, at least), nor really a place to safely hide away.

Since I am playing evil char for quite some time, then I do not see anything new in your description. Yes, I played quite some time without access to Asador and without beeing priest and it was fine and fun. Since then crusaders got watchtowers (shooting in complete darkness, btw), there are deadly elves in Elvandar forest, portal points can be changed (yes, it benefits both sides, but sadly it eliminated the only safe training ground for evils - fauns), taniels are using mercenaries now and number of `good` chars increased, while number of `evil` chars is somewhat limited (just my humble opinion).
So I believe your experience of playing evil char in current situation is slightly limited and outdated.
If you are speaking about char that was played recently, then sorry, but you are are changing facts.

All in all we are going off topic, so lets return to it.

[Devi]

Since our reputation is screwed up in .. hmm .. all areas, we wont be able to access this feature anyway and as I see it right now - to avoid hunting we will have to remove all witnesses in our way

I don't think it's an absolute necessity - either roleplay or codewise - to be considered damned in all of the cities. Karma is separate from local reputation, so it's possible to be neutral (or even slightly good) in an area while maintaining the darkest aura possible.

Even if that wasn't the case, I don't really see how this would be unbalanced. In addition to darkness, the evil side has access to objects that would make an npc useless when it comes to identifying who just walked by.

I do agree that the barbarians might be an issue, but there seems to be uncertainty as to whether or not you can even get them to squeal.

[aragog]

Karma is separate from local reputation, so it's possible to be neutral (or even slightly good) in an area while maintaining the darkest aura possible.

Except for the 'standard-outlaw-tag' you get automatically.

In addition to darkness, the evil side has access to objects that would make an npc useless when it comes to identifying who just walked by.

I might have missed something. We are talking about evils and not about thieves, Devi. Thieves can be considered 'evilish' in best case.

[Devi]

Except for the 'standard-outlaw-tag' you get automatically.

That covers exactly two areas: Elvandar and Arborea. You could say the same thing (well, opposite thing!) for Asador. With this in mind, Asador VS. Elsewhere becomes Asador VS. Arborea and Elvandar. This may not be much better, but it is definitely better than 'screwed in all areas'.

We are talking about evils and not about thieves, Devi

I was trying to be polite and discreet, since some folks might not know that the Sathonites have masks, Aragog. An npc does not know who is behind the mask. Wear a mask and walk wherever. No thieves required.

People seem to be vastly overestimating the power of this ability. So far, all the npc seems to do is tell you if an individual walked by when you ask the individual's name. To find out whether or not any sathos walked by recently, you'd need to ask the npc about every last one individually. As far as I know, there's no way to get a complete list of everyone who's walked by recently, other than asking the npc every last name you know.

[tessa]

I consider it a bad habit to comment on how easy is to be an evil when you have never been a "known evil".

Perhaps you have an odd definition of 'known' then. To me, being an enemy to 3-4 guilds, hunted by an uncountable amount of people who aim to kill on sight (and are dedicated to hunt the char online or not), being outlawed in the main cities as an alleged major threat, having bounties on one's head by a few groups, and being in a position that it's impossible for someone to know the char's name without also knowing their alignment, merits pretty well as 'known' to me. At least with the people of any significance in the situation.

If you are speaking about char that was played recently, then sorry, but you are are changing facts.

I've been around since all the things you mentioned, and all of them aimed to kill my char without second thought (or in the case of portals, made it harder). I'm not quite sure what facts I've changed, unless you're trying to say that means it is too hard, to which case I'm still inclined to disagree, having experienced all of this personally just as you have, and even without the perks I mentioned above that you have and I do not.

Mind you, I'm not saying life as an evil is 'easy'. But I wouldn't call it 'too hard', either. If you feel it is becoming too hard to play an evil, then I'm truly sorry- perhaps it is too hard, and I'm just better prepared with facing such challenges undaunted.

If you feel this is off topic, very well; let's drop it right now. Unless, of course, someone else wants to insinuate that my views on evil are false and ignorant because I am not part of the small satho clique.

[chara]

I think that all personal mentions about who is and isn't evil enough to participate in this conversation are off base, and should be dropped. If the suggestions from other players aren't helpful, then I hope the Satho players are able to notice the advantages and disadvantages of this new system for themselves over time, since there hasn't been enough time given to it to really test it out before forming a negative opinion.

[aragog]

We're not completely putting it aside, but currently it IS a disadvantage for us, Chara. If we even cannot go unmasked (given that the NPC really doesn't recognize the person behind the mask) in our own area, well...its strange at least.

This may not be much better, but it is definitely better than 'screwed in all areas'.

Devi, to get a better reputation in any of the villages, I would have to do 'good deeds' there. Consider me a bit extreme, but Aragog's way to help someone suffering, is cutting his/her throat
And somehow I doubt that this would help her reputation in ANY way.

poAra

[Grindel]

In your own areas the good guys will hardly have a high enough reputation to get hints from NPC, won't they?

Plus, the NPC seem to have a rather short memory, they remember persons for some IC-hours, which is not long. If someone is following you directly, they will look for tracks, and not bother to chat to NPC, if you went past that point some @minutes ago, then good luck finding you even with the help of an NPC.

[Devi]

Devi, to get a better reputation in any of the villages, I would have to do 'good deeds' there.

At the very least, getting a neutral reputation requires not cutting throats. I am making the point that you aren't necessarily damned in all areas. Idiotic homicidal maniacs will be at a disadvantage, of course, because no one likes them, not even other idiotic homicidal maniacs, and they always lose in the movies.

If we even cannot go unmasked (given that the NPC really doesn't recognize the person behind the mask) in our own area, well...its strange at least.

I think it's probably best to wait to figure out if you cannot go unmasked in your own area, as said:

I do agree that the barbarians might be an issue, but there seems to be uncertainty as to whether or not you can even get them to squeal.

From what I remember, it takes high reputation for an NPC to reveal directions to a PC. Is there a way to gain such a high reputation with these barbarians?

I hope the Satho players are able to notice the advantages and disadvantages of this new system for themselves over time, since there hasn't been enough time given to it to really test it out before forming a negative opinion.

[jezz]

Chara is completely right, discussing who is a good evil and who is not is pointless, which was not the point of my post. I only talked about "known evils", and I only talked from my experience with jezz, whom I suppose knows a bit about the evil collective around, after a year and some more of playing time.

Anyway, that was pointless, but I agree too in that we should wait a little more to see how this new feature developes.

Starting a discussion about how becoming enemy of Arborea and Elvandar blocks you from "Ordering customs yourself", "Becoming an alchemist", "Becoming a scribe", "Becoming any kind of layman guy", "Becoming a skald", "Doing city quests", "Training in the surrounding areas", etc, is pointless, since we evils can "kill whoever we want", "do whatever we want", "be cool", "fight a different char each day", "fight teams 4 times yours and still scape and remain cool", etc etc etc.

It was a joke So really, imho we should give this system a bit of time and then talk about which things we do like and which are hurting us.

[Blizt]

Well, you are evil bastards anyways.
Just murder the NPC like Kaspars said.
Turn him to a ghoul.

Now let someone ask him who he last saw? Right?

I think that would handle the problem!

[luminier]

i don't agree that the barbarians should be friends of the Asador people or Sathos.

if you have ever seen them fight, they kill goblins and orcs, creates of Lilith and im sure they kill the odd ice troll too.

also they worship Asral and seem to be firm followers, so I don't think they would befriend many Sathonites to be honest.

[Delmon]

also they worship Asral and seem to be firm followers, so I don't think they would befriend many Sathonites to be honest.

I dont see why they wouldnt... asrals are slightly evil as is, and barbarians i am sure would be attracted to the fierce nature of the sathos anyways...

maby it would be good to have the barbarians give information to anyone regardless of "reputation." Because I would say if i was a barbarian and someone i knew just got their throat cut by aragog, id probably tell her what i know...

maby the variable of npc fear of people with awful reputation should be implemented?

for example: if im poor lil virle and jezz comes along, I would be shivering in my boots! id tell him anything. I'd tell taniel clerics anything as well bc they should have excellent reputation... , but not the average joe who has neither.

[Grindel]

Good point! Let them tell to anyone with an extreme reputation!