Faith question

[gojin]

Hey all,

Excuse me if this has been explained elsewhere in the forum.... Im lazy but Goj ended up listening to an Asral Sermon today and started recieving some 'you feel drawn to worshipping Asral' messages. I didnt pay much mind to them and continued to rp when to my surprise Evren became pissed at me and i became a follower of Asral. I read the news on the new faith system and I understood something like this could happen was just too slow/dumb to recognize it. Am not complaining whatsoever but I do have a few questions:


1)Is there a coded time period between changes of faith or....

2)Will the stat penalty be cumulative? Meaning if within a short period of time my chars faith change from Evren -> Asral -> Taniel -> Gwen -> Zhakrin -> Evren... will he eventually be at Zero Stats? I remember dying some 6-8 times in one rl day with him once(yes i was one of those). It took like 2 yrs to get him back to full strength(with other deaths sprinkled along of course).

3)I try to play Goj as a very egocentric and strong willed(hard headed) character. He has extreme confidence in his own opinion and places more faith in it than in any god. For this reason I dont have him follow a strict model of 'worshipper of god X'. The question is... would this be considered bad RP in Geas? No need to be gentle, I am not sensitive. I would like an honest answer. Is it possible, or better said, wanted for people to play secular chars? If not, cool, Im not leaving Geas anytime soon but will have to start up a new char as I cant see playing Gojin any other way.

Thanks for reading,

PO Goj

[Blizt]

Well, I like the character Gojin (he is always asking for a bashing when I meet him)

However, on the topic of secular characters..........
In a world where you KNOW that the Gods exist, and if you betray them there will be consequences it could be very difficult to play a secular character. To believe you do not need or want the help of a deity/deities you KNOW are there, and you KNOW have the ability to heavily influence things in the world (such as your strength and abilities) it is very vain to just try to ignore them for your own personal benefit. Although, that could fit Gojin very nicely

I just think that if your character knows the gods exist, and knows they are in control of most of everything then it should be a bit hard to ignore them,
or just god-hop when you want to change your alliances. After all, every action has some sort of consequence, and if you anger someone that has that much power, the consequence may be extreme.

[tessa]

1. Do you mean is there a period it takes to convert from one god to another? If so, yes. I think it takes something like an hour. Though I had one time I converted in only 5 mins, but I think that was due to logging out during the conversion (and didn't follow a god before, so there was no real harm).

2. The stat penalty works like death. You can lose stats only so much until death stops dropping them.

3. It's not bad at all, IMO. It's only bad if you say "I'm a devout follower of xxx" and then do stuff that would anger the god, IMO. If you wish to play a char that does not worship any god, that is very possible to do. Unfortunately Asral is one of the harder gods to lose favour in, but I'll give you a hint: think about which of the other gods he despises the most. And if you ever plan to make Gojin worship no god, I'd advise making sure he doesn't have faith in any other gods before converting from Asral, or else you'll have another god fighting for you instead of being drawn to no one.

4. You don't have to give up playing Gojin! It sucks to lose vitality, I've had all time lows before a few times (died so many times my stats stopped dropping due to vit being so pathetically low), and I've gotten it back up. And, like I said, it's possible to turn Gojin into a char that worships his own great glorious self over those flawed gods.

So I say, play Gojin a bit, try to make sure none of the other gods like you, then work on dropping Asral faith a bit. Keep in mind though that you'll suffer another vit loss from going from Asral to none, so you may want to work on recovering vit a bit before the next conversion. And once you're back to god none, make sure to avoid sermons or sacrifices.

[anglachel]

You will automatical worshipper of the deity in whom you have the most faith. Then the faith of your current deity drop to much, you get the 'you feel drawn to.." warings.
This means that you SHOULD try to get some faith or you will change your deity.
This should avoid bad rp like have maxium faith in Lilith and Sathonys but worhshipping Taniel.
Having much faith in one deity means you pleasure this deity much and do many things for her/him/it. Having low faith means you take not care of her/him/it.
If you donot like this change then do much for you old deity and avoid all that gives you faith in your new deity or even try to reduce the faith. Then you will change back after some time. But then you should not change your behavior again, or it starts again.

Your deeds determine which deity your worship! If you want to be a Evren worshiper than act like a Everen worshipper and earn so faith!

You will nerver loose all your stats and you will able to recovered them with time. You will never neeed two years for a full recover (ok if you only play once a month for a hour, then it can be true ) even with severel stat penalties.

To recover the last points need the most time, but it makes no big difference if you have 98,5% of your stats or the full 100%.

[gojin]

Thanks all for replying,

Too make myself clear...

I just think that if your character knows the gods exist, and knows they are in control of most of everything then it should be a bit hard to ignore them, or just god-hop when you want to change your alliances.

Goj knows very well the gods exist and he does not ignore them(which might be the problem since he sacrifices to 2 of them regularly and 3 others from time to time) but his intentions are not to god hop nor seek alliances. In Gojin's case it matters not what gods he worships he still has the same enemies.

The stat penalty works like death. You can lose stats only so much until death stops dropping them.

That is my concern. That Goj would just be in a perpetual state of stats so low death or godchange does not effect them.

If you wish to play a char that does not worship any god, that is very possible to do.

Is it? I was unaware that you could literally have no faith in any of the gods and go back to 'none'. If true, it is a possible solution to my dilemna. Though not listening to different sermons/sacrificing to different gods would stunt my rp a bit.

This should avoid bad rp like have maxium faith in Lilith and Sathonys but worhshipping Taniel.

Which I totally agree is bad rp, even if Goj apparently had strong faith in Asral even though he mostly worshipped Taniel/Evren. I understand why the change was made and I agree with it. Just put my char in a tough place.

Your deeds determine which deity your worship! If you want to be a Evren worshiper than act like a Everen worshipper and earn so faith!

Truthfully I have no preference for what god Goj worships or how I understand it, what god has the most faith in Gojin. He more or less sacrifices to Taniel and Evren because, in his mind, that is what a proper elf should do. His actions apparently do not please them but that is where Goj believes he is right and that the gods have no right to be angry with him.

I know I more or less have to adapt to the new feature. Am just seeking advice as to how to do so without compromising the way I like to play my char. Have gotten some helpful ideas so far. Wouldnt mind some more

thanks,

PO Goj

[Devi]

He has extreme confidence in his own opinion and places more faith in it than in any god

I think it's kind of silly for any character to say he counts more than the gods. It's okay to do, but other characters should definitely look at him like he's insane, and clerics should beat him senseless. There are thunderbolts in Geas, and the gods are angry and jealous. I have seen characters say "I do not care about the gods." "OH, yeah. I do worship Asral, but it's just a business deal." "Thunderbolts? Haven't had any yet." To play a fearless, self-important, "intellectual" character is to play someone who's a moron.

Personally, I usually go with the flow for faith changes. For Devi, who is also an elf with a big ego, this means Devi will stick up for her new god when he/she's insulte, and Devi will be nicer to followers of her god, and meaner to anti-followers of her god.

Essentially, Devi thinks her god is best, whichever one it is, simply because she worships Him. She views herself as a religious commodity. Her prayers are the most valuable, and so any god she follows is automatically amazing. You can play a self-important character - who thinks his opinions are more important than every other mortal - who also recognises that the gods are vastly superior in every way.

Will the stat penalty be cumulative?

Yes. Every change will count like a death. So if Gojin changes back to Evren, his stats will drop again. (Sorry if this was already answered)

[Delia]

God none - quite possible to end up here either by accident or by pure intention. Personally I do not see god none people problematic or unthematic. Propably quite few of the invisible npc's do not toil for their chosen deity and bicker about this and that regarding divine matters. I see it simply meaning that they do not devote their lives to any particular deity and propably curse and beg any whom customs and situations might point to. Nor does it necessarily mean that the person does not have any faith in the gods either. Interpreting it as total ignorance of the presence of such forces might require some stretching though. Just a few thoughts.

[Devi]

God none - quite possible to end up here either by accident or by pure intention. Personally I do not see god none people problematic or unthematic

I was talking about character who worship a god, and then say gods aren't important, don't matter, etc. To be honest, I'm surprised the god none is still possible at all, especially considering this thread, which is really relevant to the discussion:
viewtopic.php?t=372

EDIT: Can god none characters still be resurrected? I'm guessing that they're stuck after at least a few resurrections, since doing something for a god would be worshipping him.

[Delmon]

If you wish to play a char that does not worship any god, that is very possible to do.

Yeah, it is. God none characters are the easiest. You dont have to do anything except watch out for preaching. Of course, you get no perks so it's really easier to just put a few minutes into sacrificing.

Can god none characters still be resurrected? I'm guessing that they're stuck after at least a few resurrections, since doing something for a god would be worshipping him.

Yes, you can. You just loose more vitality/score. (It's awful if you powergame to die as a god none character.) I'm pretty sure, even though Ive died 4 times(around that) as god none, Im thinking your not stuck.

And why not god none characters?
What about the characters who hate gods? They sholdnt have to worship anyone.

[tessa]

Though not listening to different sermons/sacrificing to different gods would stunt my rp a bit.

You can still RP the sermons- just don't use the coded rest for sermons (use emotes of listening politely or something, which is what I do if I would like to listen to the sermon but I'm not interested in worshipping the god).

Sacrificing to gods is a bit harder. You can emote it, but that's kind of cheap since you should get faith from such a thing. So, the next best thing is to sacrifice, but be careful not to do it enough that the god wants to take you in.

Or, just have Gojin's RP reflect the changes. Maybe he decides to stop sacrificing to the gods because he feels uncomfortable how they're always vying for his soul.

It can be a pain, but it's not undoable. I've had to change Tessa's RP a few times due to the changes (she dislikes Asral and his followers more heavily now, she's stopped sacrificing to Zhakrin/Evren/Taniel now to stay with Gwen, etc.), but I doubt anyone would frown on you for changing your own RP a bit.

Plus, it gives a change to make Gojin a little dynamic again. In the long run, I appreciate how the changes affected Tessa. To me personally, a char. that changes with his/her atmosphere is more enjoyable than one that stays on a fixed course no matter what.

[adanath]

Hatred of Gods can be construed as decent roleplay, though hard to evidence with so much external influence the Gods have, unless the players desire complete apathy. Yet, still, such hatred would need a good reason from each God to be in my mind remotely roleplayable.

Denial of Gods is terrible roleplay.

[tessa]

Denial of Gods is terrible roleplay.

Generally agreed, though a creative (though insane) mind might be able to whip something up. Like clerics being nothing more than talented mages that convince people to worship them or donate to their churches so they can squander the coins away personally, or something. (Government/s conspiracy!!!)

But yes, you can't really get away with saying gods don't exist in geas like you could in real life, since the geas gods do exist and make themselves very very very apparent to mortals (ie, conversions).

[Delmon]

Hatred of the gods is to me completely acceptable in certain situations and far different than denying their existance...

[Devi]

Generally agreed, though a creative (though insane) mind might be able to whip something up. Like clerics being nothing more than talented mages that convince people to worship them or donate to their churches so they can squander the coins away personally, or something. (Government/s conspiracy!!!)

My problem isn't with people denying that gods exist or hating every last one. You can roleplay an insane character who believes all that.

I think my problem is with the people who play relatively normal and sane characters and just nod their heads when people talk about hating the gods, thinking they're more important than the gods, not taking the gods seriously, etc. If someone says "Yeah. The gods aren't a big deal" and you've *seen* Asral's thunderbolts before, you're going to think that person is a bit off. In fact, in the world of Geas, it's irrational to not worship a god - and people who don't should probably be treated that way. I'd expect someone who is god none to pretend to worship a god, just so that people don't think he's insane or idiotic.

[tessa]

Unfortunately, it may be a while off before you find people reacting to the god haters. Hell, there's still people who find being a cannibalistic ghoul as a perfectly normal and acceptable part of society.

[Naga]

Not every adventurer's exactly a normal person. Some are former cannibalistic gourmets themselves.

[tessa]

I'm not talking about the occasional odd egg, though, I'm talking about the general populations of people who greet/befriend/defend the neighborhood ghoul. Which means either people ignore it like it's nothing bad, or there's more cannibals/ghouls in the game than not. Either scenario portrays it as an unusually acceptable part of society.

[Devi]

Not every adventurer's exactly a normal person. Some are former cannibalistic gourmets themselves.

I was trying to say exactly what Tessa did. I think abnormal people, who may or may not be insane, should be treated by the self-styled normal people as abnormal. If a character is supposed to be a reasonable upstanding citizen of Arborea, he would probably think people with unconventional views are insane, just like all of the other normal people would.

In other words: If you want to play a sane and reasonable character with sane and reasonable views (where "sane" and "reasonable" are defined by the standards of society, i.e. ghouls are bad, gods are powerful), he should react to insane and unreasonable people with an air of suspicion, disgust, or even hatred.

I think there is a lot of responsibility on the players of the majority to enforce the marginalization of things that are icly socially absurd. The apparent universal acceptance of the greeting, befriending, defending of the neighbourhood ghoul (in Tessa's words) is really ridiculous.

I'm also a big supporter of in-game sexism, racism and so on, so my opinions might be a little severe.

[gojin]

I think my problem is with the people who play relatively normal and sane characters and just nod their heads when people talk about hating the gods, thinking they're more important than the gods, not taking the gods seriously, etc. If someone says "Yeah. The gods aren't a big deal" and you've *seen* Asral's thunderbolts before, you're going to think that person is a bit off. In fact, in the world of Geas, it's irrational to not worship a god - and people who don't should probably be treated that way. I'd expect someone who is god none to pretend to worship a god, just so that people don't think he's insane or idiotic.

I think there is a misunderstanding. There is a HUGE difference between denying the existence of the gods and not worshipping them. There is even a difference between worshipping the gods and being completely devoted to them. My char 'worships' the gods, he sacrifices to them, reveres their names and wholeheartedly believes in their existence. He just doesnt devote himself to any... not anymore. That said I wouldnt see anything wrong with a char who believes the gods exists but neglects to worship any of them. Nor would my char think this char to be insane because of it. Thats just my opinion.

Is Geas supposed to be a world where every cognisent being is obsessed with their particular god? Where they live to please them? Perhaps before 'Evren's Gift' but since? I think this would take away a lot of depth in roleplay, where you only have 7 possibilities: I am a devote follower of <insert god name>. Might as well make everyone a cleric, no?

As far as chars that flat out deny the gods exist. Yes, they should be laughed and pointed at.

[tessa]

I can see a person who acknowledges and respects the gods, but doesn't devote himself to one, as a rare case. Perhaps the person just doesn't feel a close bond for any of the gods, or hasn't had a life-altering experience to put him in some god's debt or something. The emphasis of this, though, is despite not being devoted to a single one, the person is respectful of the gods like any worshipper would be. I also wouldn't expect this to be a long-term position, and would figure most of these sorts would "find their place" in time. Or, on the flip-side, these sorts could be the ones that "fell out of faith" with their former patron for whatever reason, and now have no main god to revere (and I can respect that more than some people that go, "Oops, God A that I devoted my life and soul to now hates me, time to go chill with God B now, who was cooler anyway!").

But yes, people who think they're better than the gods, belittle the gods as puny things, claim to hate them all, or believe they don't exist, are most certainly mentally ill, and should probably be treated in a similar way as you might treat someone that is deadset in the belief that rabid undead space squirrels are controlling mankind's technological evolution.