Geas

I don't really support the "the ends justify the means" logic for these kind of things, and especially how some players tend to act, I wouldn't be surprised to see this kind of logic eventually extended towards Drizzt darkelves, noble cannibals, and good-hearted Sathonites/Lilithians at one point

Hey, sounds like Delmon's logic. Too bad it's not probable, and gods do not know everything, such as motives. Delmon's been squashed, and it's all too obvious. Roleplay is then again reduced to "be evil, be good, be asral, or go home." It's just a matter of choosing one of these paths.

Tessa, you miss the difference between reputation and karma. Reputation is how the people view you, whereas karma is how the gods view you. These could be different, depending on how one roleplays, even if one is a devotee of Taniel/Evren. The Crusade isn't exactly popular in Forostar, neither was it in the real world for many people, but I am sure that Taniel and Evren are very much in favor of it. The point here is that the ends can justify the means, karma-wise, but there should be problems with those types of peoples' (Crusaders and backstabbers alike) reputation, depending on the city of course.

Delmon wrote:Hey, sounds like Delmon's logic. Too bad it's not probable, and gods do not know everything, such as motives. Delmon's been squashed, and it's all too obvious. Roleplay is then again reduced to "be evil, be good, be asral, or go home." It's just a matter of choosing one of these paths.

You can roleplay whatever you want, so long as a) you don't ignore the framework of the world around you (even when it would be easier to just behave however you like without thought to whether it makes any sense in the world), and b) you aren't surprised when you act in a way that the majority of people around you hate, and that they then hate you for it.

The world of Geas is incompatible with sweet and nice Sathonys and Lilith followers and good darkelves. (At least when looking at those areas from a "good" perspective. What they think of themselves might be far different). While fiction is full of heroes who "break the mold," in Geas that ends up more like trying to get the best of all worlds - playing an evil character without the restrictions and drawbacks of being evil. Or getting the advantage of using an extremely powerful attack without any of the negative side effects of the attack.

As players, you also bear part of the responsibility to keep the game rich and the differences between faiths and guilds separate. Otherwise, you have Gwen followers teaming with Asrals (even though Asral is the archenemy of Gwen) because those people are OOC quite nice and it's fun to make a team together. But there's no roleplay whatsoever involved in that, and the excuse that "Oh, but he's a GOOD Asral!" (or Satho, or Lilithian, or whatever) is only to justify what's convenient OOC. As wizards, we can create code that gives a push in the right direction, but the rest has to be carried out through roleplay.

The system is far from perfect, but there really needs to be a combination of code and roleplay to enforce the standards of society. As long as characters are willing to forgive nearly anything IC so that they can get along with everyone else OOC, the code has to take over the slack. Otherwise, we could just delete everything except one big pub and rename Geas "Party Mud."

I think the biggest problem is people see Backstab as a very useful skill.
It is very powerful and easy to execute and does considerable damage, and lots of bloodloss damage.

I think the biggest problem is people unwilling to give up that advantage.

However, from my viewpoint, maybe a Ranger would be better off using their very nice bows with elven arrows, hiding and firing a nice, precisely aimed missile shot.

"Trading in backstab for their bows" (as I have heard it put before)
seems to be the biggest problem.

Bows are for Rangers, backstabbing is for thieves and assassians.

That's just it. Backstab _is_ a useful skill, which is why it also has a big penalty for its use. That's why I say that trying to justify something because it makes life easier for your character is not roleplay, and it's not picking on a character to have to abide by those drawbacks. And it's not something that should be ignored by other players because he's doing it "for a good reason" or whatever.

I agree that the tactics you suggested sound great for a ranger.

To Jezz,

I don't get why someone wouldn't be able to use a certain weapon in a fight. You say riderlances should be restricted to riding. But whats stopping you from using it in an actual fight? I could use a rock to fight someone or I could use a spear. It's practicality shouldn't restrict the weapon. Plus mounts need to be revised anyways. Still in beta as far as I know.

luminier wrote:To Jezz,

I don't get why someone wouldn't be able to use a certain weapon in a fight. You say riderlances should be restricted to riding. But whats stopping you from using it in an actual fight? I could use a rock to fight someone or I could use a spear. It's practicality shouldn't restrict the weapon. Plus mounts need to be revised anyways. Still in beta as far as I know.

Well, it was more a joke than a serious comment. I would not mind if you fight with a rock, although obviously you wouldn't be very effective, the same way I thought rider lances wouldn't be very effective weapons if not for charging.

But it was long ago since I stopped trying to ask rider lances to be changed. In fact, now is quite a blessing: crusaders fight with a weapon with which jezz is an expert, so it's easier to defend against, which is something a cleric can do better than a crusader (if a cleric defends against a crus, he can still cast miracles).

And, second point, rider lances are very helpful when sathos have to kill undeads

Ah I suppose I just cant yet tell tone over the text on the forum heh. But it seems to me I fight people who use spears all the time and they have no luck against me. Spar or otherwise. I always can get more crits and parry more than they can. Perhaps I am just lucky. Perhaps there is more to the story. But in the meanwhile the Crusaders aside from our fine Lord Marshall will be using rider lances.

Bows are for Rangers, backstabbing is for thieves and assassians.

Screw that! (inside joke). Anyways, I love geas and I understand your points Chara.

chara wrote:That's just it. Backstab _is_ a useful skill, which is why it also has a big penalty for its use.

I agree that the tactics you suggested sound great for a ranger.

Not to mention a well placed missile shot can be more deadly than a backstab.

Right, backstab can't instakill.

luminier wrote:But in the meanwhile the Crusaders aside from our fine Lord Marshall will be using rider lances.

This game is too good to play it "optimally".

i think most will agree when i say *whew* glad thats over.

i think most will agree when i say *whew* glad thats over.

Backstab would be nice if it could instant kill.

Delmon wrote:
Backstab would be nice if it could instant kill.

Jeez it pretty much is already. You bleed so heavily the fights over. Only trouble is elves are so weak it barely does any damage. *fears tshahark backstabs*

You have no idea how much damage a single backstab can cause. Actually
it is already quite a lot, and you can thank admin that it no longer causes
as much damage as it used to long time ago.

You have no idea how much damage a single backstab can cause.

I beg to differ. I do.

Jeez it pretty much is already. You bleed so heavily the fights over. Only trouble is elves are so weak it barely does any damage. *fears tshahark backstabs*

I never thought about that.... Anyways, I was just kidding about the instant kill.

I've heard shadowy legends about 'cut throat' in the far distant past of Geas...you can all imagine what that must have done

Backstab is already incredible, especially if you don't let your victim aid. That's the real trick. Now, to get those goddamned trolls to bleed...

I don't its an elf strength problem, but I could be wrong.

I seem to recall long ago backstab was toned down because certain individuals were capable of doing enough damage with it to kill high powered mobs, let alone players.

Their race ? Darkelf.