Geas

The reason you don't see guildless evils fighting good people is because guildless evils have no allies. To get allies they have to make nice with the Sathos and if you are doing that, might as well join Sathos or Thieves or w/e.

Mogwai has already pointed out that being a guildless evil is tough and not as rewarding. Luminier has rightfully pointed out that a guildless evil needs allies, and if that's the case, you might as well join one of the evil guilds. Which means, if you are an evil guildless tshahark with allies, its time to join a guild. I guess the question is, are the sathos and thieves and order open for tshaharks?

Delmon wrote:

The reason you don't see guildless evils fighting good people is because guildless evils have no allies. To get allies they have to make nice with the Sathos and if you are doing that, might as well join Sathos or Thieves or w/e.

Mogwai has already pointed out that being a guildless evil is tough and not as rewarding. Luminier has rightfully pointed out that a guildless evil needs allies, and if that's the case, you might as well join one of the evil guilds. Which means, if you are an evil guildless tshahark with allies, its time to join a guild. I guess the question is, are the sathos and thieves and order open for tshaharks?

They really aren't. The one most appropriate for the tshahark "bruiser" role would be the Order, but they're usually composed of highly intelligent and cunning fighters, who are supposed to be as secretive as they are strong.

When it comes down to it, evil guilds are harder to get into because they require very high skills and stats, as well as player skill, all aside from roleplay. Other guilds which can work in the open are free to recruit players who've been playing for a month or two, they don't have to wait 6 months to a year just for the character to be decent enough to be a newbie.

Olrane wrote:

Delmon wrote:

The reason you don't see guildless evils fighting good people is because guildless evils have no allies. To get allies they have to make nice with the Sathos and if you are doing that, might as well join Sathos or Thieves or w/e.

Mogwai has already pointed out that being a guildless evil is tough and not as rewarding. Luminier has rightfully pointed out that a guildless evil needs allies, and if that's the case, you might as well join one of the evil guilds. Which means, if you are an evil guildless tshahark with allies, its time to join a guild. I guess the question is, are the sathos and thieves and order open for tshaharks?

They really aren't. The one most appropriate for the tshahark "bruiser" role would be the Order, but they're usually composed of highly intelligent and cunning fighters, who are supposed to be as secretive as they are strong.

When it comes down to it, evil guilds are harder to get into because they require very high skills and stats, as well as player skill, all aside from roleplay. Other guilds which can work in the open are free to recruit players who've been playing for a month or two, they don't have to wait 6 months to a year just for the character to be decent enough to be a newbie.

See the problem isn't the guildless evil char lacks combat ability or skill, even the role play has solutions.
Its the fact that it lacks a guild, a way to communicate, allies to coordinate with. Thus you end up stuck training in one spot. with no way to reasonably effect the world around you.

That's how it usually goes. It's just very difficult to coordinate, and the problem is above all a small playerbase.

If a player is willing and able to grind, but has no group, he has no influence.
If a player wants to be in a group but won't/can't grind appropriately, it will take for-freaking-ever for them to be able to join the group, simply as a matter of liability.

The best strategy, then, is to be what you'd desire. If you know you can handle the grind, develop a character who can join an established faction or rally a new faction. It's a lot of work and a lot of patience, a constant fight against apathy of self or of the group.

Just remember that guildless players are not that much less powerful than guilded players, especially if they work together. It's sometimes better to develop strengths which don't rely on a guild as a crutch anyway, because then you're freer in your associations.

And just one more tip for neutral-ish guildless evils from personal experience: never ally with Sathos unless you are a Satho. Guildless characters can find allies without throwing away all their options like that. It's a mostly dead end once you do it, and if you're not ready for it/don't want it in the end, it will make the game unplayably unfun for you.

You think its hard to coordinate, try it without a guildline.
The best part about a guild is the guild line hands down and that is what a guild less character lacks. This is the biggest problem.
Guild less evils don't necessary lack allies, but they lack the ability to contact allies, thus they lack training partners/people too coordinate with/ and people to interact with due to not having a line item

The lack of guild powers I could care less about, finding allies who are awake is near impossible without a guild line or a tell sending miracles.
I don't think its a lack of desire to grind or train the char or due necessary RP actions but until the inability to contact other chars.
I mean I'm all for some solo grinding, but solo perma grinding? doesn't sound like that much fun to me either.

What about having a line for non guilded sathonites?

luminier wrote: The way it may seem unbalanced is that some Sathonites and Asralites are downright stupid and most of the Taniels and Crusaders just aren't. And if they are stupid, they have their numbers (usually) to back them up.

Says someone who has never played an evil character.

isengoo wrote:

luminier wrote: The way it may seem unbalanced is that some Sathonites and Asralites are downright stupid and most of the Taniels and Crusaders just aren't. And if they are stupid, they have their numbers (usually) to back them up.

Says someone who has never played an evil character.

Wrong. He's spent more time playing an evil character than you have I'd bet.

Lack of communication? Leave your who on (i doubt good guys will abuse it, if they do tell a wizard) and get runic rings. Start leaving notes on the board, leave a note when you log on, and remove the note when you log off. who cares if the numbers start skipping, no harm done.

ganandorf wrote:Lack of communication? Leave your who on (i doubt good guys will abuse it, if they do tell a wizard) and get runic rings. Start leaving notes on the board, leave a note when you log on, and remove the note when you log off. who cares if the numbers start skipping, no harm done.

It's abusing who if you use it to facilitate tell items. Period. I go who off exclusively these days because I know the temptation to abuse it for me and for others is too great.

Guess I'm a cheater.

ganandorf wrote:Guess I'm a cheater.

Not trying to call you out or anything, just piping up because you were advocating something that seemed against policy. Tends to be counterproductive when giving advice.

The who helpfile is pretty clear about it being strictly OOC.

I personally have a problem because I warp my play around who I see on the list...like lingering in town, for example, or sending tells as mentioned earlier. I doubt I'm alone. I advise to everyone, especially if they notice that they have an OOC/IC separation problem involving who, to go who off.

Mogwai wrote:What about having a line for non guilded sathonites?

I agree that is's a "problem" for guild-less evils to communicate.. but I also think that it is entirely logical. The biggest strength of guilds is that you can co-ordinate many persons..

Coordinating with other evils is difficult without the guild communication device, even if you do have who on.
If you play a guildless evil tshahark, it's not just very difficult, but borderline not fun to play.

The order is out of reach for tshaharks and that has been made clear.
The thiefs are out of reach for tshaharks and that is just obvious.
So maybe Phelan could allow tshaharks into the sathonys clerics? The mental limitations of tshaharks balance things out and there is certainly IC plausibility here.

Olrane wrote: They really aren't. The one most appropriate for the tshahark "bruiser" role would be the Order, but they're usually composed of highly intelligent and cunning fighters, who are supposed to be as secretive as they are strong.

Akin to the cunning tigers of the wild; behold!
Here we present thee with the Order Tshahark,
perhaps not the best when it comes to math, linguistic studies, nor astronomy or herb-picking, BUT, I say, he can make grand plans of battle and come out victorious!

'highly intelligent and cunning fighters' or 'higly intelligent' and 'cunning fighters'?
As for secrecy, I imagine a higher-ranking order member just telling the tshahark to be silent about 'this', 'that', 'those things', 'and those'.

Would not this be possible?
Since tshaharks are very simple, but are made for battle, and cunning is required for battle?
*gently urges everyone to behold the mighty threads of various authors detailing how tshaharks are 'cunning' albeit not 'geniuses'.*
*is in a splendid mood of extravagant and often unfitting adjectives and adverbs today, therefore mighty threads.*

I sincerely doubt anyone has really not used the who list to send someone a tell with their ring. Everyone knows it's OOC information, but who wants to be alone all the time? Cut them (or us, I've done it a few times) some slack.

It's a game, if it were real life everyone would be online all the time. Unfortunately that's not the case.

Delmon wrote:So maybe Phelan could allow tshaharks into the sathonys clerics? The mental limitations of tshaharks balance things out and there is certainly IC plausibility here.

Phelan would have no problems to accept a tshahark, actually I'd rather accept a tshahark than a halfling.

Incoming tshahark satho tanks. ROAR.

What izzss miracle izzzss? ZZssssathonysszzzss, Zsszzazzhonizzsss, ZZzzzzzazzzzzzzonizzzzzssszziszzz.... whateverzs, zssmahsz.