Geas

I think that the court systems which exist in Geas are completely out of sync with a medieval game. There are entirely too many provisions against certain acts (rape, flogging, etc) which completely miss the mark regarding medieval culture.

For instance - Isen is currently charged with assault by someone who would be considered a peasant. Isen, being a member of the clergy, in accordance with medieval thinking, would be completely exempt from these charges. Actually, the person who brought these charges against a clergyman would probably be punished just for doing so.

Also, the role of women in Geas is entirely out of character with medieval thinking. Women were regarded as completely inferior to men in every way. Men could do all they pleased to a woman (short of killing her in broad daylight) and nobody would mind it at all.

The fact that nobody recognizes the class system in Geas is rather troublesome to me, considering it was a major driving force in medieval culture.

One could argue that elves are more sensible than the filthy human society, but still, completely ignoring the class system is kind of ridiculous.

Mm... do we have a class system? On another mud, we ran into the argument that we as player characters are considered the "heroes" above the common peasants. We go out adventuring, killing orcs, and other non-typical things. And then there's the obvious argument that this is a fantasy world which doesn't necessarily adhere to historical facts. Are there set rp parameters that have been established?

I agree with you Isen.

But, I do not think "nobody" recognizes the class system. I think there are characters who would back Isen just for the principle/hierarchy. Like you said, a priest from the city should be nearly untouchable. The big question is whether he has the right to behead the guy he dislikes on the spot.. or if he has to take the long way. That's probably a difference between e.g. taniels and asrals.. simply talking with a too hard tone or questioning them should be more or less suicide.

WARNING: PARTIALLY LONG ROAD AHEAD

Actually, I differ in opinion a bit. OOCly, that is
Since all the gods exist, beyond any doubt (in geas,)
the question of how you act when it comes to the various
deities is not a question of faith, or belief. It is a question of
how much you 'fit' the deity, or, less arrogantly said, how drawn
you feel towards that particular deity. In Geas, anyone not believing,
questioning the existance of any deity, is a madman, since all the deities
exist there as surely as ice cream exists in real.

Elvandar and Arborea both 'house religions' namely Tanielites and Asralites.
However, both cities are open to other (non-evil(yes I know the laws about this in Elvandar)) religions. In medieval (European) culture, christianity was the only religion(?) and had 'monopoly' on religion, so to say.
In Geas, it is FACT that several deities exist, and it is FACT that several religions are allowed in all cities and towns (perhaps except Asador).
The law of Elvandar directly states that it has taken principles from Tanielite worship ( Tanielite beliefs here get a bit weird to speak of, seeing that anyone doubting the existence of any of the deities is mad.) but it also states that it will be secular in its judgements. Thus, Tanielites should have an easier time thinking the law just, but would be as subject to it as any other.
[This is meant to counter Isengorn's second paragraph ]

When it comes to classes (no, not wizards and monks ) I agree with Desiderea. Player characters are (generally) heroes of various degrees. And if not heroes, they are seldomly peasants, or commoners. (Scribes should, if following medieval culture, be _very_ respected, as nearly none 'should' be able to read or write.) *further rambling about how most are heroic to some extent, complete with Zehren as example due to him having hunted undead*
That is quite different from peasant, and the same goes with lowly gremlins. They are the creatures of the Goddess of Chaos and Darkness. Setting out to hunt those creatures and bringing peace to the lands, is, well, heroic.

TL;DR: READ IT

In medieval times only in the Roman realm(Most of Europe as said) was Christianity the only religion, there were hundreds of religions healthy and large by the by throughout the world. This is a much smaller world, with much the same diversity in it. Granted it was a large realm, but there were MANY parts of the world that were not conquered by it, and parts that the papacy allowed to practice other religions (for political and posturing reasons), as well as places during specific times of the churches rule where they forced papal catholocism.

Also, you are not a hero to start with, you are an unknown adventurer, with no money, no guild, no friends, and basically a peasant. I am not saying I agree in totality with the above posts, but they certainly have merit, and there have been many times I have seen new adventurers disrespect heavily those in high positions of authority, despite the fact that they basically have no elevated level. That is in my opinion poor roleplay.

I agree with you to some degree Zehren. I only disagree with your idea that Elvandar has other deities besides Taniel at the forefront of its class system. Yes, the city certainly allows followers of the good gods in, but that does not mean that those followers are or should be treated with the same respect as a priest of the patron of the city.

Just sayin'.

I think the court system is mostly the way it is right now due to playability concerns.

I.e. in other words, it is a tool for players to use.

I do however wonder how anyone can play a Lilith or Sathonys follower ... and whether karma checking should not be mandatory before making a court case ...

Just because some medieval elements are part of geas, doesn't mean all of them have to be. If you think it's a problem, run for judge and make the change yourself.

ganandorf wrote:Just because some medieval elements are part of geas, doesn't mean all of them have to be. If you think it's a problem, run for judge and make the change yourself.

Thank you. I was going to be long-winded, but I don't need to be.

Forostar is not a facsimile of Earth. "Medieval" is nothing more than an approximation.

Hm, yes, but as a Gwenite, I wouldn't have a high level of respect for clerics of Asral. To me, they aren't holy, they're delusional, spreading war and hate. Just because Asral is the patron deity of Arborea doesn't mean I see Asralites as above the rest of the populace. Hm, maybe Gwenites are a bad example, since they aren't likely to cause trouble.

I guess it is reasonable not to insult or otherwise disrespect members of the clergy or people in positions of authority. But people may still have dissenting opinions. And I don't think clergy members should be "above the law." They may hold more respect in their town, but they can't go around doing whatever they feel like. Otherwise, the people may revolt.

Desiderea wrote:And I don't think clergy members should be "above the law." They may hold more respect in their town, but they can't go around doing whatever they feel like. Otherwise, the people may revolt.

Unless they agree with the clergy

Olrane wrote: Forostar is not a facsimile of Earth. "Medieval" is nothing more than an approximation.

But this is more direct at the 'women subordinate to men' comment in the original post.

Since this game has 'real' deities, that is, things that actually exits, let's take a look here:
Taniel - male
Evren - female
Gwen - female
Zhakrin - no gender
Asral - male
Lilith - female
Sathonys - male

Now I know that perhaps this is just how the gods 'choose' to appear and may not have actual genders....but
Male: 3, Females: 3, No gender: 1

So it's always made sense to me that there are many strong female leaders in game, as well as male. It's in fact a feature I find to be pretty cool. Even if it doesn't fit in with the IRL past-world, as was said this is just an approximation.

Not a flawless argument here, but just something I've noticed before about the game and players in it.

IMO since Taniel is a male, he should give preference to men. Same with all of the other male deities, which are most of the deities which have real impact on the game.

I don't think that the treatment of medieval women was quite as uniformly bad as poIsengorn states - in certain ways they were worse off in Industrial Age England than they were in Medieval England - but this is another discussion.

At the very least I will argue that there were quite a few female saints arising from medieval Europe, so whatever the plight of ordinary women, there was plenty of room for celebrating the accomplishments of exceptional women. I'll further state that once a player has been around for a while it is fair to consider him or her exception in the eyes of commoners; I can't think of many real-life analogues to Geas PCs, but there must be something exotic or mysterious or at least worldly about us in the eyes of commoners.

I don't have a problem with assuming that Elven society is a bit more enlightened than medieval society was in any case. Elven society has female guards, a long-serving queen, several female judges, and priestesses who are most certainly not the mere sexual playthings of Roman times.

In the case of Arborea, I've imagined society there to be something like Viking society, where women certainly had to earn their keep but were regarded as more or less equals of men in many respects. Thinking of it this way, a female human judge of Arborea doesn't seem farfetched to me, especially one who is accomplished in her own right and is a truly astonishing fighter.

In any case I agree that it isn't necessary to replicate medieval society in Geas.

isengoo wrote:IMO since Taniel is a male, he should give preference to men. Same with all of the other male deities, which are most of the deities which have real impact on the game.

Real impact on the game != impact on the world. Coded guilds bias player support, but that doesn't change the makeup of the Forostar culture. There are plenty of clerics and other representatives of Evren, Gwen, Lilith, and Zhakrin about, they just aren't mostly players.

It's just an unfortunate side effect of a small playerbase and limited development energy that there's little player support for the other factions.

isengoo wrote:IMO since Taniel is a male, he should give preference to men. Same with all of the other male deities, which are most of the deities which have real impact on the game.

An interesting thought, but not one I would agree with - Caelia will argue that the complementarity of the sexes, like practically any other naturally occurring phenomenon, is part of Order - and if both are utterly necessary, it would be hard to argue why one or the other is intrinsically better.

Necessity doesn't mean that people in general shouldn't be misogynist pigs

I always wondered what Isengorn the dwarf thought of Caelia. Now I know!

Ahaha, well, he's not exactly hateful as dwarven culture is, I imagine, very male-centric. He's constantly learning how other cultures act (as it should be with all races, IMO).

Well I agree generally that certain separate 'societies' would be more male-oriented (as in Asral, and Sahthonys but _not_ Taniel, since they seem to have been historically female-led, if I'm not mistaken)

but still....on that point

@caelia though you both seemed to support and deny this point I'd just like to say that IRL female saints != IG female deities. In that in game female deities, for their followers are the truth and the whole of their worship, not exalted now-gone mortals, as they are IRL (please excuse my limited and perhaps biased view of saints if it is not correct )

So there would be, IMHO, more of an accepted pattern of strong female leaders, under the GEAS theology. That was my thinking anyway.