Geas

Other players being wiser in how your character should act and knowing better who he/she is and coming to rub it on you...honestly? Try to find something better to occupy your time with Sorry to hear that something like this transpires behind the scenes.

Personally older tshaharks can be given some more space in "how they are supposed to act" and as you cannot really easily and accurately determine someone's intelligence with a quick glance, the lizard brain could be hiding an exceptional specimen. Of course if every tshahark begins acting like a master scribe it is just plain silly, but! If you meet one IC do not dismiss it completely AS A PLAYER. IC, no holds barred I say but you can always be courteous and drop an OOC whisper stating that you are not attacking personally here and perhaps leave a little smiley as well in order to prove your sincerity

I just want to say a few things for the record:

1.) I don't like the idea of a tshahark being judge
2.) Adanath was originally just seeing if his name could be there
3.) It caught on because of ic issues with corruption
4.) Adanath has told many people he wants someone else to be judge, but if noone good will do it then he will ask all the good people he knows to help him
5.) Tshaharks are not down syndrome children in my opinion, it is a language and intelligence barrier for sure, and originally tshaharks could be all manner of clerics, I believe that is more an issue of balance.
6.) In times of deep war, a deep honest warrior will do whatever he can to protect his city from evil..that is about as deep as Adanath sees it
7.) In no way do I plan on making huge intellectual decisions, so please don't judge my roleplay before it has even been done, and once again if there is an issue with my characters roleplay, please take it to the arch rather than the forums.

I am not posting this for arguments just informationally. Adanath is honest and sees an evil city that was once holy, all he wants is for it to be holy again, and if a SINGLE person ran that was "shiny" you have no idea how Adanath would react, I have never wanted a judgeship nor did Adanath.

poAdanath no one was faulting your roleplay, not even a little bit.

I said this "Now I should say, there is no fault in poAdanath here, why would he not run for judge. I am just questioning the rp surrounding voting for a tshahark judge! He IS a tshahark, though valuable, notoriously dumb!"

poRudolpho said this: " Anyway, a Tshahark being elected judge reflects more on the ones doing the voting than the Tshahark. Sure a Tshahark would run for judge just as likely as they'd eat a dirty band-aid that they found on the street, but you don't vote for someone who would eat a dirty band-aid that they found on the street."

I thought your roleplay was perfect. I was speaking more on the IDEA of tshahark running and winning judge.

Hmm, I begin to dislike the style here a bit - and, I fear you misunderstod poAdanaths post, poBrom Anyhow, NO SCRATCHING PLEASE!

I wasn't trying to start an argument or criticize any players I'm sorry you felt that way poAdanath, I just wanted to further discussion. I added that disclaimer of poAdanath not at fault for a very specific reason, I had included that specifically so that it was made clear i was not criticizing your roleplay and why i quoted myself in my last post, scroll back if you want, that quote is there. Unfortunately sometimes things are missed in long posts!

Ah, after the edit it indeed reads better Thanks a lot

I really like Allurana's idea. The Council should bar tshaharks from running for Judge, Adanath could be publicly ridiculed but because he is such a great figure in Elvandar and one of it's only defenders people would likely come to his defense and make an almost-martyr of him.

Looking back, it's actually amusing how our knee jerk reaction was to complain on the forums instead of trying to do something IC. If anything Adanath revealed something that was very wrong that should be fixed IC.

Well I had to result to using forums, as my character 100% supports Adanath being judge in game.

Ya that makes sense actually, thinking about it more - this would be your only method short of talking to adanath OOC or sending an OOC mail

I apologize if I spoke too rashly.

I have a thick iron hide, I just like to play and try not to be too dramatically involved ooc, cause I enjoy playing with all of you guys, and I don't want to poke holes at anyone.

Please go on in such a subtext, and I will only add that citizens who have been informed of an evil lurking in their city may desire a more warlord like leader who is childishly attached to many of the same values their maker anc creator and protector of the city espouses. Especially in the face of dire evils, people choose strength over intelligence, although I think intelligence of tshaharks to be sorely misrepresented.

Delia wrote:as wizards stating OOCly "This here is wrong.", is off course IMHO again.

I spoke too rashly. If they didn't want it done at all, there'd be code restrictions to keep it from happening.

But I think there's a large difference between Volog farting, as you exampled, and certain events IG that actually create hardships for characters (don't really want to list additional cases, some I feel are better kept IC/private). There are times when wizards implement consequences for certain RP decisions, perhaps not necessarily to say "this is wrong", true, but perhaps in lieu of code that doesn't already do what they feel would be a natural effect from certain IC causes.




On another note, which I wish I would have said in my last post and not waited until now:

I can vouch for Adanath and empathize with his position from personal experience. Sometimes there's a lot of peer pressure from friends/allies for someone to "take one for the team", so to speak. And when it comes to deciding leaders (under which I include judges), decisions are sometimes made based on the player's traits, rather than the character's traits. So while Adanath the tshahark may be a poor IC choice, Adanath the player may be a great OOC choice, and that would be why he was chosen by others.

That being said, such a position can sometimes feel like running the gauntlet. It's a position you don't necessarily want, but took under obligation to your friends/allies, you get flak from others for doing it, and you can't wait for your retirement. It's a position of frustration and no reward, done in the name of duty.

Although it seems everyone is in agreement that poAdanath is not at fault, and that reactions should be done ICly rather than OOCly, having been in such a position before, I want to throw in my two copper bits about what it's like being on that side of the fence.

I agree with what the smart girl who hides in the shadows said.

Anyways, a tshahark can become intelligent and accepted as such. Delia has known tshaharks who know more languages than the average Forostarian AND can read and write to boot.

The thing is, it is extraordinarily difficult and time consuming which is all fine and well. If you truly wish to surpass the perceptions of being a meat with tail, go ahead and learn those INT skills and show them off and do not expect all those years of warrior's cunning to translate into civilized intelligence(as that is the point here as I see it).

Learn to read and write, pick up a language. Teach your ignorant lizard brethren better ways, write epic prose about the boar that was eaten by another, become a revolutionary who holds inspiring speeches that goad your lesser kin into fearsome frenzy and take on Forostar.

As I already said, I have no trouble with a tshahark judge.
I even enjoy the IC roleplay in Arborea, mocking how bright and brillant those elves are to vote for a Tshahark beast as judge, who could not even read or write.
Gave me already a good laugh or two.

And from a balance point of view, I think tshaharks are already limited enough. I think they cannot be scribes, I doubt they could be alchemists and certainly never mages. All these require an analytic mind (which is not intelligence par se).

I (as player) do not see a reason why a tshahark should not be a priest, it does not require an analytic mind and their low wisdom scores would severly limit them as priests already. But if the players of the Taniel clergy do not want them IC, either their gods will agree or bop them hard on the head
In other clergies I see at least tshaharks, but may be they are just old remains and no new are accepted.

Aslak wrote:As I already said, I have no trouble with a tshahark judge.
I even enjoy the IC roleplay in Arborea, mocking how bright and brillant those elves are to vote for a Tshahark beast as judge, who could not even read or write.
Gave me already a good laugh or two.

And from a balance point of view, I think tshaharks are already limited enough. I think they cannot be scribes, I doubt they could be alchemists and certainly never mages. All these require an analytic mind (which is not intelligence par se).

I (as player) do not see a reason why a tshahark should not be a priest, it does not require an analytic mind and their low wisdom scores would severly limit them as priests already. But if the players of the Taniel clergy do not want them IC, either their gods will agree or bop them hard on the head
In other clergies I see at least tshaharks, but may be they are just old remains and no new are accepted.

The priest issue is not just a simple matter of intelligence I believe there are also game balancing issues taken into account AFAIK.

Game balance? In my RP-mud?

Edit: This format is likely solely funny if one is familiar with x? in my y? meme.

As many people mentioned before, I also think that the problem lies not in Adanath's choices, but possibly that some are not prejudical enough (or at all). Or well, it is not really prejudical to be against tshahark judges - especially not if they are actually slightly dumber. It seems to me like there are many elves (and humans for that matter) who don't pick up that part. And I am not talking specifically about this occasion since I know there are some large political factors to vote this or there.. but in general.

I would not object if it was impossible for tshaharks to run. But I'm also fine with the way it is. Maybe the citizens could greet tshahark judges only with great effort and a sigh? "Greetings.. *sigh* honourable judge". It might help remind people of the common prejudice that most people are supposed to have.

I am surprised nobody seriously tries to bribe a tshahark with boar. Bribe by boar?! Someone who roleplays a tshahark seriously might accept the bribe and cause all sorts of trouble (I can think of a million ways of having fun abusing the judge position as a tshahark). And I really mean seriously accept it, despite all of the terrible effects it can have. Good RP. No gaming.

Aslak wrote: And from a balance point of view, I think tshaharks are already limited enough. I think they cannot be scribes, I doubt they could be alchemists and certainly never mages. All these require an analytic mind (which is not intelligence par se).

Interestingly enough, I have recently come across a bit of game lore that actually seems to state that tshahark can become mages. In the legends and lore section of the Geas website http://www.geas.de/?page_id=213 near the end of section 6 (the aftermath) it mentions "one of the rare mages amongst the tshaharks casted a spell". So maybe it is out of reach for most tshaharks, but there are clearly some exceptions.

Actually I don't think that that "tshahark mage" was fully tshahark. I could have my lore mixed up but I thought that the mage that lore talks about was simply a human with messed up features due to a botched transformation. The difference being he had not lost his mind like the other -tcharks-.

Tshaharks the ones that we currently know and love are the "successful" transformation I believe. Tcharks are failed transformations.

Again, I could be misinformed or incorrect.