Geas

Alright folks. Much has been said and now it is time for some facts:

Asador was never supposed to be easy to raid. That the archers did not shoot the last 2-3 years was simply due to a bug as they had no bows. The defenses have NOT been boosted! Arborea and Elvandar will not get their defenses boosted as those two towns are supposed to have player help. I am not going into details, but the guards know how to yell for help.

The tower of pain will be changed a bit. We will add a timer and from the time of the change it will require lives - your lives - to close or open it. That is if you wish to take action before the counter expires. I will not reveal details, but every sacrificed life will shorten the counter.

The trap miracle will be changed a bit as well. Trap will trap everyone including the casting cleric. The cleric is trapped 100% for a while and everybody else is only trapped heavily in the beginning. The miracle cannot be aborted and not be requested again before the trap vanishes. Revenants will not get the trap miracle.

I am also not going into details about cleric vs warrior, but you will have to believe me when I say that a cleric is not fully focused on combat while requesting miracles and even mood defend does not change that fact.

I consider to have this thread closed as it is more a flame war of comparing apples and pears instead of having a beneficial discussion about things.

Nibble wrote:Alright folks. Much has been said and now it is time for some facts:

Asador was never supposed to be easy to raid. That the archers did not shoot the last 2-3 years was simply due to a bug as they had no bows. The defenses have NOT been boosted! Arborea and Elvandar will not get their defenses boosted as those two towns are supposed to have player help. I am not going into details, but the guards know how to yell for help.

The tower of pain will be changed a bit. We will add a timer and from the time of the change it will require lives - your lives - to close or open it. That is if you wish to take action before the counter expires. I will not reveal details, but every sacrificed life will shorten the counter.

The trap miracle will be changed a bit as well. Trap will trap everyone including the casting cleric. The cleric is trapped 100% for a while and everybody else is only trapped heavily in the beginning. The miracle cannot be aborted and not be requested again before the trap vanishes. Revenants will not get the trap miracle.

I am also not going into details about cleric vs warrior, but you will have to believe me when I say that a cleric is not fully focused on combat while requesting miracles and even mood defend does not change that fact.

I consider to have this thread closed as it is more a flame war of comparing apples and pears instead of having a beneficial discussion about things.

I have really tried to be constructive in my notes, or tried to lighten the mood. However I do have one comment.

Currently without a cleric, and another object in the game, the tower of pain is almost certain death to all but very few on the good side. I am sure you know. I just wanted to add that in case.

The last time with multiple protections geared towards saving my life, (I have pretty decent con) I was taken to NFVW from closing it, and Aturshus was instantly killed. This is not a complaint at all, just informational. It has been that way for the good side for a while.

I think it is good Asador is so hard to raid, I'm not sure what to do about arborea and Elvandar, I have guarded them in the past and will in the future, and truthfully I do not believe they should be as difficult as Asador. Though perhaps with the current situation some kind of adjustably perhaps harder now. It should be a rare event I think, but as the good side gets stronger, then hopefully they will fill some of that void.

I liked trap. It just really doesn't affect me miuch, I'm not generally moving that much anyways, more of a "turtle" myself Without the platemail.

If i might suggest something, when a cleric has cast "trap" they should not have access to any other miracles and must fight melee.

the ability to block 100% of the exits at once is -very- powerful and thus they should not have access to that AND very powerful miracles also. If the cleric has good combat skills in addition to good miracle skills then they deserve to have their way with the trapped individual. But a cleric who relies on miracles alone should not enjoy this luxury.

I think this would fix the "problem" of a cleric vs a light armoured fighter/no magic resistance.

So no one misunderstands, if Cleric A casts a trap only Cleric A cannot cast more miracles until trap ends. If Cleric A and B are together and Cleric A casts a trap, Cleric B should still be able to cast miracles, but Cleric A must be forced to fight melee... be that fight the enemy or defend Cleric B.

Does that sound fair?

No, because clerics are casters first, fighters second. Even Asrals.

So you should have the cake and eat it too? Bogus man

What can I say? Me likey cake.

Luminier's Protips:

Roll Cleric.

Sathonites do not strike me as meant to solo. They can get team support from dead ogres, after all. It seems fair that a team of dead thingies be forced to not pray for more miracles while Sathonys has already trapped their enemy.

By fair, I meant balanced.

Wow someone agrees with me. It's like it's logical or something.

luminier wrote:Wow someone agrees with me. It's like it's logical or something.

Don't get any ideas.

I know theres no argument to be had here, as trap is active, and that is that.

But poAdanath in another topic youve stated about lightly armoured characters that they are never meant to stand 1 v 1. That they are supposed to hide, and sneak around, and shoot arrows. Yet you are also in support of the trap miracle...

How exactly is someone supposed to used sneakiness and maneuverability to their advantage, when they can be trapped in a room with others. This is not good vs. evil discussion, but light armour vs. medium armour (in this case clerics).

ganandorf wrote:I know theres no argument to be had here, as trap is active, and that is that.

But poAdanath in another topic youve stated about lightly armoured characters that they are never meant to stand 1 v 1. That they are supposed to hide, and sneak around, and shoot arrows. Yet you are also in support of the trap miracle...

How exactly is someone supposed to used sneakiness and maneuverability to their advantage, when they can be trapped in a room with others. This is not good vs. evil discussion, but light armour vs. medium armour (in this case clerics).

I would say the most likely answer would be that I need to sneak around more and put on the hat a bit more to answer it from a more informed perspective.

That is a good question, I will say. I don't believe a lightly armoured cannot, as I have seen it done, however, I do believe it to be entirely disadvantageous to the sneaking character, albeit in such a case, there is the option of not entering the same room as the character and avoiding the trap.

Although I suppose if you want to be in the same room and backstab you should still feasibly be able to run out prior to them casting. As far as I know (which I don't know that much), it is not instant. I am not saying it is not disadvantageous, I can certainly see how it could be. I am merely trying to work with the problem.

How it should be is that in 1v1 against almost anyone, including a cleric, an assassin should have at least an even chance to win the conflict if he can successfully backstab and hold the opponent (to make him bleed out).

If that's not viable, then backstab isn't viable. We're talking about a specific case here, 1v1, where the assassin has the initiative. There's no 1v0, and that gives pretty much no better circumstance for the assassin to be in. What exactly is he supposed to do to get fair odds?

Probably hide behind a Sathonite and shoot arrows or move back and forth is the answer.

The 'trap' is my oppion not so danagerous, as some people think.
First the clerics need some time to vast the trap, besides he/she/it is warned and preparered. So normaly any player, who rush in a cleric have enough time to run out before the trap can work.
Second the trap is not absolut. It makes only very hard to flee in the first seconds. If you surrive the next 15-20 seconds, you have a good chance to flee. Then you should think about, if it is good idea tp come back.
Thrird the cleric is traped, too. If it is used against a player like Adanath, Druzilla or Yegerfin. If would not say the cleric trap one them, it would be more excat that the cleric is trapped with Adanath, Druzilla or Yegerfin.

anglachel wrote:The 'trap' is my oppion not so danagerous, as some people think.
First the clerics need some time to vast the trap, besides he/she/it is warned and preparered. So normaly any player, who rush in a cleric have enough time to run out before the trap can work.
Second the trap is not absolut. It makes only very hard to flee in the first seconds. If you surrive the next 15-20 seconds, you have a good chance to flee. Then you should think about, if it is good idea tp come back.
Thrird the cleric is traped, too. If it is used against a player like Adanath, Druzilla or Yegerfin. If would not say the cleric trap one them, it would be more excat that the cleric is trapped with Adanath, Druzilla or Yegerfin.

Don't give them ideas! Let them find out themselves that its a two-edged sword.

And not everyone is Yegerfin or Adanath. =D

Olrane wrote:How it should be is that in 1v1 against almost anyone, including a cleric, an assassin should have at least an even chance to win the conflict if he can successfully backstab and hold the opponent (to make him bleed out).

If that's not viable, then backstab isn't viable. We're talking about a specific case here, 1v1, where the assassin has the initiative. There's no 1v0, and that gives pretty much no better circumstance for the assassin to be in. What exactly is he supposed to do to get fair odds?

I did say I need more experience with this style of playing just to say in advance, however, like I said earlier, I believe they have plentyof time to come in and run on a cleric. A cleric may prepare a trap after being backstabbed once, but then the patient player shoots arrows until they move, and then when they move runs in and does it again and runs out. It isn't an instant cast miracle.

Look at how dangerous plains darkelves can be, without ever being in the same room, now you have a player who can sneak in backstab and run out and shoot arrows. I know it isn't that simple, but they have to be quick or get trapped.

fernao wrote: Don't give them ideas! Let them find out themselves that its a two-edged sword.

Normaly i would say nothing, but sometimes the kette with rumors boils over. This such a case there some clearyfication are needed.

Sometime the rumours over this and that are amusing for someone who knows the truth. Be careful some rumors are burlesque or simple worng.

Anyone with half a brain could see that it's a double edged sword.

But that wasn't the point I was trying to make with my post.

My point was that if you get to block all the exits in a room after 5 seconds of casting and keep them there for 15-20 or even 30+ seconds if you are lucky, the only downside shouldn't be that "YOUR IN HERE WITH ME" *rorschach voice*. For ridiculously strong Tshaharks, sure that might be fine. What about the other 90% of us? Of course Adanath doesn't mind the change, he doesn't lose anything from it... in fact he GAINS from it. If I was a cleric I wouldn't be wasting time using Trap on Adanath in a 1v1 fight. Hes going to stay in the room unless he starts to lose, then you have him in your palm anyways!

But for everyone else.... light armoured fighter... normal warrior, whatever, they have a severe disadvantage. Hell the miracle even -knocks you down-when you try to escape sometimes, Blocking doesn't even do that.

That was the point I was trying to make. Giving Clerics so much power is silly.