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being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:45 am
by morgaine

Long time lurker of these forums, seldom writing posts. I was gone for the better part of a year at least and came back now, haunting the MUD again if I'm able.

My char, who most of you know on a different name, has a problem. She has made mistakes a lot of them. And one, as I am starting to realise more and more, was becoming a dark elf. That has nothing to do with the fact of being evil, she's a twisted elfie and has always been, but rather with the implications that come with it.

The biggest reason for my return is that I learned the situation in Arborea has changed. I can now at least sometimes run into people to interact with and enjoy the time. I composed this post to show people what I have experienced roleplaying a dark elf, hopefully sparking a discussion or two as to how the situation can be improved. First, the list:

- Being a dark elf opens some doors that were previously closed on you and there's
a little physical advantage as well.
- The whole process of becoming a dark elf is very well done and well thought out.
- having 'no way back' has a certain ring to it that I do like, especially for my
conflicted char.

- Most people don't even bother to stop and engage in any form of non-violent
interaction. Even being thrown at with foul vegetables would be a welcome change.
- Being instantly on the enemy list of half the known world is certainly difficult at
best. And no, Asador is no alternative. Go there, you'll understand.
- Even the most dumb folded newborn tshahark telling that you are evil is annoying
and unsettling and destroys any form of potential trickery or mischief you might
feel up to.
- It feels more like you are a savage beast then a mortal creature that has chosen to
worship the powers of darkness. We have class too!
- It is a very lonely life for one who prefers a good RP event over a long battle.

Why would I have chosen to make my char dark elf then? It fits her. She is a very dark
creature, twisted and messed up in many ways, but also not altogether savage. She has her ways and she worships her dark powers, but she's no savage brute. You may find her helping you or being very kind if she believes you are of use to her. She may save a kitten from drowning if she believes it will further her goals. She may altogether like somebody and be uncharasitically selfless. Or she just may be waiting to place a dagger in your gut.

Yet, I find myself unable to live her character even to the slightest, because people don't bother to even get to know her. She's a dark elf, she's the enemy, she must die. Because all dark elves are sathonite priests, thus they must die. (That's fine for the priests of Taniel and the crusaders out there, they even, I believe must think that way, but ... the rest of you ? come on).

What is the purpose of this post? I think I wanted to visualise my little quarrels with my chars situation. I still do have a fun time mostly. The one or other of you is bound to have a good idea to improve things and I don't want to pass this opportunity by. So lets hear it!

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:32 am
by Aturshus
On the character in question, and this situation as a whole, I do often take time to roleplay with the poor lonely darkies whenever it seems fitting. :P

I would like to see more roleplay opportunities open up for darkelves and the like. I play this game for the roleplaying, not for the fighting, so the idea of playing an evil character has always been a terribly unappealing prospect for me.

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:33 am
by fernao
The main problem is that being a darkelf is something visible I think.
Would be just too cool if you could become a darkelf but retain the outer appearance of an elf, after all, they are twisted in their mind.
However, I am led to believe that the change it stats require a new race be assigned to the character, thus definately resulting in a change in description that makes others forget you. Still, would be nice to show up as elf in normal description...

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:36 am
by mazarmormuk
i can only agree, fernao.

such a change would open a lot of playing abilities to the dark side.

I once made a little darkelf and played him, the main reasons why i stopped again are listed here i think. Its an extremely lonesome game for a darkelf and all possibilities he has is stay alone in asador and the tundra or meet blank attacks outside.

there could also be a mix solution like eyes turning black in special situations (beeing extremely hit, doing evil things, attacking or whatever)

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:20 am
by fernao
Or a visible aura pulsing a short period after extremely evil deeds.
But I think one reason for the lonelyness is that the "evil north" is not as populated by (active!) players as it once was.

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:31 pm
by mazarmormuk
which opens the question of the causal correlation...

Is it lonesome there cause players dont want to play the very limited roleplay of an asadorian or

is the roleplay of an asadorian very limited cause noone plays there?

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:36 am
by morgaine
Regarding darkelves being visible, I personally believe that visible changes are needed, but they shouldn't be so obvious. Not obvious enough to make everybody see 'dark elf'. Maybe, it would require very high intelligence for somebody to get the suspicion of one being a dark elf. Maybe, there could be certain differences that require close examination to tell (differences in facial structure, examination of ears, ... ). Subtile changes that require a certain amount of intellect to tell a dark elf from a elf. Subsequently, that should also allow for a dark elf to pass through as an elf, for most of the time (unless being stopped and closely investigated, e. g. at a citygate). Would be something I would cherish.

Regarding the north, it's a big, stinking lair for fanatics. There's no young chars there, there's no people with a difference of opinion. This was never the case and, honestly, Asador was never an interesting place for me. Out of all the time I walked around there, I'd daresay there were maybe two or three interesting encounters, maybe a little more per OOC year. The rest of the time, I passed clerics doing their thing and that's it. Fine for the clerics, but nothing that sparks interest in a char like Morgaine.

Also, this is the reason that Arborea is the deal changer for me. Arborea gives me the possibility to at least reach other people every once in a while, even with the taint still visible as it is.

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:42 am
by Delia
I can understand that it is frustrating that most options for good and evil interacting are by the point of the sword. Though from the goodie perspective it is just ignoring the world around you if you go around exchanging daffodils with dark elves and such, as they really have not done anything but to make themselves targets for extermination. This naturally stands for anyone who can resist and fight back, vulnerable characters(and moments of vulnerability)leave much more interesting options to pursue. As it is now it is very much about how good and evil are presented by the game.

I fondly remember when Delia was just about dying from the plague and fumbling around for ingredients for a cure disease potion when Jezz walking in. Some nice RP moments ensued :)

I agree it would be nice if being a dark elf were masked, somehow. I think there was a discussion about it somewhere on this forum, too.

Somehow I might like that there also might be "shades" of being a dark elf. Meaning that the elven society could brand someone as "dark", an outcast, not meaning any soul selling shenanigans or any other stuff that the current dark elves represent. Of course it would not have to mean for the outcast to be actually evil at heart at all... :twisted:

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:17 am
by Aslak
If I recall right, from my basically almost not at all played char from the distant past when the mud was still new, darkelves were not having a different look then the normal elf. Obviously it was changed at sometime in the last...hmm...10 years or so, or my memory just fails me, and never played much back then.

But I would certainly support the idea of a "different kind of evil". One that does not openly wears bone armours and calls for war every moment. A more subtle evil would be very welcome, and if changing darkelves back to elves on the appearance site would help, why not. Beside, I do believe Lilith is the far better god for subtle darkies then Satho is.

From the IC point of my char, he does not like darkelves very much in his city and most of the time stops to watch them and question them what they want in a human city. Specially with a horde of greenskins on the door, suddenly new darkelf activity sparks attention :)

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:24 am
by morgaine
Well, unobvious darkelves, or even more common, not always rightfully declared dark elves, would improve the situation. Allowing one to 'blend in', in any way, would be helpful. Not looking for total security here, live as a dark elf is not easy. But, looking for a way to enjoy company of others every once in a while and engage in something different then a PvP fight.

I am not looking to be able to interact with real goodies, crusaders and such. Those are likely being aware who my char is and even if masked likely would have suspicions. My main disappointment comes from everyday folk here.

Like Asrals, Gwennies, you name it. People who don't have an overly large alignment with good or evil. Being able to tell darkelf by the size of her nose is not improving this situation.

I would also cherish some people just stopping and trying to convert you back or trying to find out why you fell to the darkness. Even yelling or something... any kind of non-violent interaction, preferable. Blackmailing to reveal you to the crusade. Anything really :-)

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:34 am
by Aslak
morgaine wrote: Blackmailing to reveal you to the crusade. Anything really :-)
Now I need to check what the Asral codex says about that. :twisted:

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:35 pm
by Delia
Like Asrals, Gwennies, you name it. People who don't have an overly large alignment with good or evil. 
It does not matter if you are neutralish or slightly good or sit on fences, no one in their sane mind does not have any incentive to play nice with dark elves as they just bring undeads, death, disease, chaos and worse. Most interactions revolve around short or long term survival. It does not really differ between different non-evil faiths. All are equally gladdened to see dark elves driven from their lands. It is hard to be nice and courtious to a dark elf as the other dark elf is happily munching on someone's intestines.

That is how I see it atleast and IMHO much in the game supports that. There is a lot of room for other kinds of "evil" but I recall people saying the game tends to push the little nasties towards oblivion or extreme evil, like trying to become a satho cleric. I am sure that if there were splendid well fleshed up ideas they might eventually, with patience, see the dark of night in the game.

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:26 am
by mazarmormuk
Guess morgaine doesnt mean nice and polite, but only interacting in a different way to instant battle.
while a crusader might not want to change a word with a darkelf and simply attack to kill, some less extreme positions might find the time to spit into a darkelfs face and call him a *censored* before attacking him

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:17 am
by fernao
Also, you may need to differenciate your views on darkelves. Not every dark elf follows Sathonys, and not every Sathonys darkelf is a ghoul much less a priest of Sathonys.
True, for members of the clergy of Taniel or a Crusader that doesn't matter, but for those with an at least neutral alignment and an open mind set, there might, and in my eyes, should be room for such a differenciation.

And I assume that is what Morgaine was aiming at. As she said, even a "Shuh shuh, go away evil spirit" would be more welcome than blant ignorance or instant attack/flight.

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:24 am
by morgaine
As Delia said, nobody does have a reason to be in any way interactive with a dark elf, because after all, they have 'I will eat you' and 'I am the worst scum of the earth' written right over their faces. (which I regret to have, but there we are right now).

While this is really true for a goodies point of view, who battle darkness on a constant basis and who seek to root it all out. But, e. g. a Zhakrin follower, who has some degree of darkness within their soul? If this is the way of arguing, those characters have to shun crusaders and Taniel Clerics with the same passion. They are the same, just for the 'good' side. I believe this argumentation to be flawed at the core, at least for me, one with a truly neutral mindset should not have the same reaction to a dark or any follower of Sathonys / Lilith then every goody has.

And yes, I really meant that 'Go away evil spirt' would be an improvement. Currently there is no interaction usually then 'kill darkelf' or 'flee immediately'. Not even a shout of 'a darkelf. She tries to eat my soul. <god> save me!'. Just ignorance, likely because the players of the chars assume darkelves are 100% sathonite priests. And even then.

I simply wish for more interaction instead of blunt fights. A good example of this was so far, how a group of rangers reacted to her presence. Kudo's to you guys, I really enjoyed having something different to a balant battle. I certainly don't expect most people to be friendly to any dark elf, but this ignorance or fight is boring. As morgaine would say "we're not all savage beasts.".

Since the turn to dark elf, there was not a single character who has ever considered hiring her for anything malicious, for example. Or strike deal for protection. Or even take one of the trade offers she makes. I find this situation a little sad.

The interactions since I returned that were offered outside of Asador that were not either of the two common responses are less then 5, I'd say. Again, kudos to those who go out of their way to try to make a interesting experience.

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:36 am
by luminier
I would prefer that being a darkelf is simply roleplayed.

There was one character in particular (Allurana) who did an amazing job of playing an elf who was so clearly of a darker inclination.

However, just because she didn't have "dark" in front of the "elf" she was actually able to fight alongside the likes of Luminier on more than one occasion.

Why does becoming a darkelf really need a change to the character's race codewise? They should just get a boost to some stats and a malus on others. They should not be able to properly follow Taniel or Evren but able to follow Sathonys or Lilith with ease. They should definitely just been seen as normal elves.

It would make the subterfuge so much more in depth and exciting. Seeing darkelf and autoattacking is just boring.

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:06 pm
by ferranifer
luminier wrote:Why does becoming a darkelf really need a change to the character's race codewise?
I agree 100% with this and have expressed this opinion every time the topic has come up. I think there are a number of penalties associated with being a darkelf that would stop working though, but on the other hand, I think the penalties shouldn't have been there to start with anyways and should be in the hands of the players. I'm all pro giving it a try. It will definitely affect the way the World feels but it might help with the extreme polarization and the issues that stem from it (i.e.: game is boring and stupid if you are evil, so evil players quit or never become to be).

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:34 am
by Eluriel
Eluriel had some fun interaction with a dark elf who she didn't quite trust but who she was still interested in learning from. Even got her in trouble with the Crusade. :P But yes, those kinds of interactions make things interesting.

It would be nice to be able to play dark elves a bit more subtly too though so that they have a chance at "passing". As it is now, being a dark elf cuts you off from a lot of the game world, which I imagine takes a lot of the fun out of it.

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:41 pm
by Delmon
Don't do it! lol

Re: being a dark elf: A report

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:21 am
by Liranne
I know I am late in responding to this post...but as a light loving elf, I would have liked to have more non-violent rp encounters with dark-elves. I can think of one dark elf player that was very cool, with solid rp my light elf would have loved to have interacted with (squee! fangirl) but surrounding miscreants (both light and dark) opted for always attacking first. In terms of D & D alignment: almost every dark aligned character was CE, except for a few NE but as a light aligned character LE was the rare character of intrigue. It sounds like I'm gushing but it was refreshing to vigorously debate racial origins and faith. I don't know if this character still plays but it was a refreshing break from auto-attacking since everyone and their cousin wanted to be a dark elf. Just like their are elves that drift neutral, why can't dark elves be like that? The lore is that they did evil stuff to gain their darkness. Has any one of them ever had any regrets?

My character a light elf, tree hugging, Taniel save the Queen and all that, I would stop for some rp even with an evil character. The reason can be as convoluted as this dark elf can be redeemed...oh how that would makes (insert dark god here) quite angry to as petty as name calling. And that's what I miss. It got boring running across dark characters with itchy trigger fingers (with aliases) and getting ganked with no rp.