Old vs New Players

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Old vs New Players

#1 Post by Chud » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:06 am

Hi all, thought I'd make a post seeing as others had done so, along the same lines.

I started playing a week or so ago after seeing this on a MUD board, and within a day was picked up by a pretty friendly group of new-ish players who were playing Crusaders. Within the first two days, I was subjected to a torrent of IC abuse at the hands of older players who didn't like said players (see the prior Xog issue) and tried to assert IC dominance over them despite a difference in guild membership, and pretty much ostracised from the majority of the 'good' side as a result. My first 'real' encounter was in the Elvandar marketplace with numerous older players telling me to shut up and making threats. I found it incredibly hard to interact with a good number of older players, as they constantly waved around IC powers as threats instead of helping newer players or making attempts at meaningful roleplay. We attempted to avoid these people and make attempts to bridge the IC gap, however every attempt at such was met with IC hostility. This culminated in one of the newer players and I getting tired of the constant powerplays and left the Crusader guild in a big show. At a point during this, there was constant attempts from the older players to abuse metaknowledge mechanics to ruin IC karma/faith. The players responsible for all this then started enforcing what is essentially mandatory playtimes before being able to take part in what is essentially the 'group activities' of GEAS, hugely restricting newer players from interacting in a meaningful manner. I left the Discord shortly before this, due to numerous passive-aggressive comments from older players.

After this, I decided to switch characters to a newer one, to see if I could just fly under the radar for a while until they stopped applying the 'new, don't be nice to this person' tag. On the recommendation of an older player who was more inclined to interact with new players in a helpful manner, I went and made an NPC application to the Rangers, as I didn't know who the guild leader was and they were never online. Before the timer elapsed, it was vetoed with no attempt to contact nor explanation why.

After this, I've decided to stop playing. The existing atmosphere isn't conductive to new players joining, and the clear majority of older players are set against any sort of change and will do everything in their power to gatekeep and force newer players out. I hope this kind of conduct is noted by wizards and an effort is made in future to be more inclusive.

Thanks to Ram for the little interaction we had, and to Delmon for being the only other who seemed to make an effort to be nice to newer players, despite their evil-aligned status.
Last edited by Chud on Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Old vs New Players

#2 Post by Silvie » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:17 am

Sorry to hear those are your thoughts on the game Chud.

I played Kaine and took Chud under my wing pretty hard in the game, which came as a cost to my character but I had alot of fun with them and their RP and I do wish it had turned out a different way. I think they made some miss-steps as a new player but that's really inevitable and I think that with that kind of attitude it might be good for people to look at what they are doing to make the game feel welcoming to newer players, but I hope you enjoyed the time we spent roleplaying together and grinding together, because I did personally :D

As for the idea of group play, I do think myself that joining a guild is an integral part of the game and not only helps for furthering your character icly but also is a big part of finding others to roleplay with and having reasons to do stuff with others as this can be pretty hard to find otherwise in my experience on new characters, so maybe there is something to be said about wordlessly vetoing NPC apps without any follow-up on them, or some of the longer processes that some guilds have for joining.

Best of Luck finding something you enjoy more to play.

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Re: Old vs New Players

#3 Post by Delmon » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:00 pm

It's a shame you experienced this. I thought it was cool that there was an up and coming Crusader group. You guys did a good job and it was pretty entertaining rp.
I don't know why the "dont be new to younger players" is a thing. Maybe the impression is dont invest until they know its not an alt. If you do decide to come back, there's always the outcasts in Asador as a path forward.

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Re: Old vs New Players

#4 Post by Ash » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:50 pm

I think context is important, I'm sorry you feel that way Chud, however if any character spoke the way you did, they would be ostracized, plain and simple. The situation in Elvandar where you were told to "shut up" was basically a mock court room, what do you think would happen in real life if a stranger walked into a court room and started rambling, interrupting the judge while they were speaking? They would be removed by force, in this case your character was only told to be silent instead of physically removed from the space, which is basically getting off easy.

Regarding your application to the Rangers, I'm sad to hear that. Most people ask that applicants have at least a basic amount of experience with the world before they join, as the application system was only meant to be used when there are no players around to physically recruit you to the guild. They probably should have sent you a mail though.

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Re: Old vs New Players

#5 Post by Arsicas » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:57 pm

Hi, Chud. I’m sorry that was your experience. I wasn’t involved in any of the circumstances directly, so I don’t know all the details. But I was curious what led to the big dramatic leaving the guild.

I think in some cases the issue is the new player not knowing enough about the game world and what is appropriate in terms of interaction. Or just having different expectations about the game. Just in briefly talking with others, it seems like your character was rather rude/abrasive himself, which is what led to some of the responses.

That said, I do think newbies need a way to get involved in some of the storylines and politics the older players are involved in in order to learn more about the world and so they don’t feel ignored. I think having an older player bring a new player along on their everyday actions can help to show them the ropes, and that’s what I experienced as a new player, which made the game feel more inviting. I know that doesn’t work for some characters though, either because they’re involved in pvp conflict or, in the case of evil characters, being seen around them as a newbie can do more harm than good.

I guess the balance seems to be being inviting to new players while still being true to the game world. And yes, there is a lot of conflict and extremism, and taking the wrong action can lead to harsh consequences. It might be best to get a feel for the politics and conflicts going on the in game world before trying to insert yourself. But I also know that players want to be involved in what’s happening because that’s the whole reason we play a multiplayer game. So yeah, having a way to onboard new players without throwing them to the wolves would be good.

Also, re: joining guilds, the packmaster of the rangers recently made a post in Elvandar that any NPC applications would be denied and to contact the packmaster or a senior ranger via mail. I know some other guilds have done this in the past to encourage direct communication and because the NPC join should be a last resort. However, I know this makes it difficult if you don’t know who the current leadership of the guild is or if you have different playtimes. We threw around some suggestions on the Discord about making it easier to contact applicants/guild leaders, cause I know it can be frustrating to be denied application and have no idea why.
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Re: Old vs New Players

#6 Post by FainWelkin » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:36 pm

Sad to see these issues still continue. Geas is an interesting world, but I found the community to ultimately be elitist, insular, and unwelcoming to outsiders. The absolutely mindboggling extreme amounts of grind are also unacceptable in a modern game. You can be a non-casual game without requiring absurd amounts of utterly tedious activities to be repeated over and over for a literal year just to begin to qualify for an archetype. Geas will never retain any noteworthy amount of new players until these issues are addressed.

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Re: Old vs New Players

#7 Post by Delia » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:44 am

I agree about the grind. There is simple too much of it and also players have very little reliable information when it comes to your relation to the grind. How fast am I making progress? How much I am penalized for my choices? How long do I have yö keep doing this and that? All unknowns. The game is foster these days for new players than it was when I started though so I have to give Geas that :)

I do not agree with playerbase being elitists. You can come across elitist characters however who will demand your respect and will react poorly if you ignore their rank and offend them or/and be an adolescent joker in their presence. It is all IC though and there are plenty of less strict characters out there whom you can interact with.

It is all about choices and RP. Do you choose to offend the Taniel clergy in their hometown or do you pursue pleasant relations with them? Choices choices.
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