I hate Crusaders and how overpowered they are.

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adanath · #1 Post by **adanath** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:48 pm

Hey I just thought I would make it a thread since it comes up a lot (especially in reguards to certain persons) in posts and detracts from the other subjects. So now just talk about how you hate everything here. That way it won't interfere with other people.

Alamar · #2 Post by **Alamar** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:11 pm

I hate Crusaders and how overpowered they are.

Blizt actually mentioned that a wizard told him that the Crusaders are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing with their guild. Can maybe other guilds get a word every once in awhile from wizards to let us know when we are doing something good with our guild?

Magic is very low in this game. Crusaders do "nothing but fight", yet they still have access to very powerful miracles, they have access to blessed weapons and armour. They have access to little special things that help them resist enemy miracles. They have access to the most powerful mounts in the game (exclusive access that is). They have a castle that is virtually impregnable, yet when I asked for an extra guard at the gate of my own guild after it was attacked I was told to go climb a tree.

In short, this guild of super tough, super strong, heavily armoured (yes, chain plus miracles means heavily armoured) opponents who can climb trees in their armour, spin around and hit everyone in the room (and kill four sathonites at one blow so goes one story), insta-crit warrior clerics of other guilds, and have the full support of the queen of elvandar, the taniels, and the druids are overpowered.

This is of course frightening for me to say, since I don't want to end up like Atrophius, but I would like to at least speak from my own experience with the game. Adanath and Blizt both seem to think that everything is fine... yeah.... they are crusaders... what could I possibly say that would convince Crusaders that they should not have absolutely everything to the exclusion of other guilds.

-poAlamar

P.S. Don't worry... more rants are coming. poStilgar it would be great if you could chime in at any point.

Blizt · #3 Post by **Blizt** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:17 pm

Alamar wrote:I hate Crusaders and how overpowered they are.

Blizt actually mentioned that a wizard told him that the Crusaders are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing with their guild. Can maybe other guilds get a word every once in awhile from wizards to let us know when we are doing something good with our guild?

-poAlamar

P.S. Don't worry... more rants are coming. poStilgar it would be great if you could chime in at any point.

The reason I was told this, was because someone (whom it would be great if they could chime in, anytime) was complaining.
They were complaining because they threatned to kill Taniel followers, then butcher them, then eat them. Then they were stunned.

This person stated to many people oocly that the Crusaders were nothing but cross wearing bullies and they were ruining the mud for everyone.
They told me of their plan to ally the Asral Clergy, the Shaolin, the Rangers and every other guild on the mud against the Crusaders.

So I simply asked someone about it.
I got the reply we do exactly as we were designed.

I will wait for that person to chime in now.

adanath · #4 Post by **adanath** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:20 pm

Well I would love to have miracles but I don't have any.
We have the support of Taniel and Evren because they are our gods (somewhat logical) and the clerics and druids are their spokespeople.
We do exactly as we are supposed to do under Taniel.
Of course the Queen loves them they protect Elvandar more than anyone root out threats more than anyone. Why wouldn't the Queen love them?

You see even that presents an interesting roleplay oppurtunity for those who would like to actually do something. You can try and increase another groups support by the queen and run sly and background campaigns to somehow decrease her support for the Crusaders who have been avidly protecting her and her city for years without any help half the time.

Anyways, Melee Combat Crusaders are overpowered vs non-melee guilds.

this is logical. Crusaders are experts in Melee combat so don't go head to head with them melee. If you are an evil cleric you figure out a way to suprise or get an extra advantage or else you are the Order and you have a lot of nice buffs as well.

I am not going to tell you how to use strategy with your ranger to defeat a crusader but I am sure it can be done. I am very sure it can't be done 1v1 Melee very easily. This is you see a logical and simple thought. However it could be done through other ways.

I also would not suggest using your instakill argument since you had just died. Malys is bigger than Adan even. You wear hardly any armour. She used a lance which is a very good weapon that is very long and very adept at thrusting being a spear type. You were in a more aggressive mood from attacking an unarmed Tshahark earlier. Your fitcon was down from just dying.

Now then. Yes they are powerful 1v1 melee or melee. THEY ARE A MELEE GUILD. if you want to combat them or be equal either start another Melee guild or join an opposing melee guild or join them. Otherwise you see you enter into the realm of non-melee guilds or partial-melee like rangers. THEY ARE NOT FULL 1v1 MELEE ORIENTED GUILDS.

chara · #5 Post by **chara** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:27 pm

What ..the heck.. does Atrophius have to do with anything?

Alamar · #6 Post by **Alamar** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:29 pm

Well I figured that since my criticism has at least as much to do with the wizards as it does with the other players. I've spent a lot of time on this game and don't want to get booted for openly criticizing what I feel to be unfair advantages that certain guilds have.

-Alamar

adanath · #7 Post by **adanath** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:31 pm

By the way the Crusaders do not have miracles they do have a few buffs that their Gods allow them to have in turn for doing their will.

There are MANY drawbacks to such things in the amounts of times they can be used (VERY VERY FEW) and what they do. (as 80 percent of them are oriented against fighting evil enemies)

I would explain this more deeply but I feel that some of the lack of knowledge of multiple guilds is part of the great things about this mud. So if you want to find out more make a crusader.

chara · #8 Post by **chara** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:33 pm

Alamar wrote:Well I figured that since my criticism has at least as much to do with the wizards as it does with the other players. I've spent a lot of time on this game and don't want to get booted for openly criticizing what I feel to be unfair advantages that certain guilds have.

-Alamar

I think you need to go back and reread the reasons why Atrophius was kicked before you stick your foot any further down your mouth.

Alamar · #9 Post by **Alamar** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:00 pm

Atrophius said dumb things about Abharsair... Atrophius got booted. It was a good move.

I just want to make sure that I'm not falling into the Atrophius camp. Seeing that kind of thing happen to another player is sort of terrifying so I wanted to make sure that I can speak my mind when I post.

Is that an understandable position or have I stuck my foot in my mouth?

chara · #10 Post by **chara** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:21 pm

You've stuck your foot farther down your throat.

The details of Atrophius' banishment are right here on this very forum. It was made public to avoid "misunderstandings" like yours. Please read about it, and stop spreading misinformation as fact.

Alamar · #11 Post by **Alamar** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:46 pm

Ok well sorry... I wasn't spreading these as fact... I was just telling what I had heard from many other players in the game. I am sorry if I came across as spreading false information as fact... it was just what I had heard.

Mea culpa,
-poAlamar

Alamar · #12 Post by **Alamar** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:25 pm

Well I guess I'll go ahead and apologize again for pissing everyone off today. It sort of sucked watching Alamar go evil, but it sort of makes sense considering all his rp. I had plans for him as a good guy, but it should be fun to have an evil character.

Sorry again for being so offensive, now I know why Blizt goes on rampages from time to time (and no this is not a jab at Blizt!!!). I'll try to keep my wrath confined to only offending people IC and not OOC.

Sorry again both for the misunderstandings (there have been several today) and for anything that offended people ooc. I'll quit complaining and learn more about the game. Just when I think I've got something figured out...

-poAlamar

tarlon · #13 Post by **tarlon** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:09 am

Crusaders overpowered? didnÂ´t notice it yet. The only thing they are is the guild with the most aktive players with powerfull players.

Drake · #14 Post by **Drake** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:48 am

tarlon wrote:Crusaders overpowered? didnÂ´t notice it yet. The only thing they are is the guild with the most aktive players with powerfull players.

I don't think it could be said much better than that.

And just for reference, I've seen pretty much this exact same thing said before, at different times, by different people, for different guilds.

And in each case, the same thing, the guild being bemoaned as overpowered was simply active, high in player numbers compared to the other guilds, able to effectively work as either a cohesive singular guild or in concert with other guilds, and visible compared to any opposition.

And like so many times before, its all our (the wizards) fault. Hearing this, over and over and over, for actions generated and controlled by players choices becomes old, very very quickly.

And I think I can safely say I speak for each and every one of the other wizards on that last one.

Delia · #15 Post by **Delia** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:39 am

Crusaders have a good thing going that is for sure and there are many of them. Given GEAS' preference in team-combat it definitely gives them a good advantage. Two is always more than one and the more the difference the more pronounced the handicap becomes for the lone warrior. I like it as it is, it would be bit dull if the "heroic warrior slays all" would stand true. If friends aren't around, go get mercs, they are relatively cheap.

Now to be true to the thread I have to compain about something

The crusaders lance seems quite powerful. Ok I myself have only one receiving end experience from it and I didn't have no chance whatsoever to defend against it ( bad luck? ) in mood defend agi buffed to near ultimate and defence 100 to name a few. I understand that the compared length of tthe opposing weapons has something to do with combat calculations (?), if this stands true ( well, even if not ) it makes little sense for lance, or any extralong weapon to perform well in close combat. I mean, once a combatant with a dagger/other short weapon gets inside the lance the lance wielder is minced meat if weapon is not changed. I could buy a big tshahark picking the over-sized toothpick and changing into a meatgrinder.

as Abharsair clearly illustrated inviewtopic.php?t=329&start=20

p.s. This was obviously a real world observation brought to a game-environment, and as such does not hold any water. I know the little bugger is tough

#16 Post by **Abharsair** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:33 am

Length has nothing to do with damage or how well a weapon performs. Length only determines what location you can reach, but if you're an elf with a longsword you can already reach all of the locations anyway.

Weight, on the other hand, determines damage, and a long weapon is usually heavier. But heavier also means slower. If you take only pure damage into account, the clubs the giants use would be also excellent weapons.

kaspars · #17 Post by **kaspars** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:06 am

*completely agrees with poTarlon*

I like crusaders as they are and I`m happy to have such opponents. Sometimes it is very hard and impossible to stand against team of skilled melee fighters, but usually it is fun.

Just have to find a way to catch them offguard or trap somewhere ..

Blizt · #18 Post by **Blizt** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:40 am

Yes, I hate how overpowered Crusaders are as well.

They can not use mercs to fight people, mercs are all Evil or Neutral, so no support from them.

They cant use the seer. Shes an Evil Lilithian, wow thats a huge advantage for them.

Their Tshaharks cant enter Arborea with weapons. Oh no, a Crusader without weapons is deadly.

Their larger members weapons and armours are so heavy and encumbersome that they arent able to move in them effectively until they are extremely strong.

They are forced to protect good and innocent people, even if they must walk knowingly into a situation that will leave them dead, looted and in a horrible situation for hours of online gameplay. Now this is a HUGE advantage for them.

Every hunting area is set up that if someone wanted to ambush them, it would be very simple to do so, especially if you used a good or innocent person as bait.

There are many more overpowered advantages the Crusaders have, but telliing you those just might spoil the fun of the mud.

I wont mention my instakill special that only the Lord Marshall of the Crusaders gets, it might piss some people off to know it was implimented.

Blizt · #19 Post by **Blizt** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:12 pm

Alamar wrote:I hate Crusaders and how overpowered they are.

Magic is very low in this game. Crusaders do "nothing but fight", yet they still have access to very powerful miracles, they have access to blessed weapons and armour. They have access to little special things that help them resist enemy miracles. They have access to the most powerful mounts in the game (exclusive access that is). They have a castle that is virtually impregnable, yet when I asked for an extra guard at the gate of my own guild after it was attacked I was told to go climb a tree.

-poAlamar

P.S. Don't worry... more rants are coming. poStilgar it would be great if you could chime in at any point.

Well, try this Alamar, get a custom mithril spear, axe or chain item.
Order it the same length as the Crusader weapon and compare them.
You will find out the mithril weapon does more damage, and weighs slightly more (adding to its damage apparently)

Now, how many custom mithril weapons does Alamar have?
How many do the Rangers have?

Mazar has a whole set of customized armours.
Those armours are much better than Crusader armours.
On top of that, he has miracles (which you pointed out that mixing miracles with good armours and weapons are overpowered)
He also has a mount (which you pointed out again) that might not be as good as a unicorn, but is still a big advantage.
Crusader miracles are only defensive only and can't be used much at all
So now I guess Mazar and the Asrals are overpowered as well?

Crusaders have nothing that is not accessable to other players on the mud.
Even Unicorns can be stolen, if done correctly and its not branded.

Mithril weapons and armours that are available to everyone on the mud (except crusaders) are even more powerful.

The reason I say Crusaders cant wear mithril armours, is because Crusaders must use and wear Crusader gear. This actually puts them at a disadvantage if their enemies mine an extreme amount like Alamar or Mazar.

Crusaders outnumber people 2:1 when fighting them.
Whose fault is that?
Crusaders arent allowed to use mercs.
I have seen people turn a 1 vs 1 fight into a 3 vs 1 fight by a quick trip
to narveed.

I hope its becoming more clear now.

Tatiana · #20 Post by **Tatiana** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:48 pm

Inequality is the price we pay for diversity :)
Sure we can make everything "fair", everybody will be great at everything but how interesting will that be?
Just accept that different characters are, oh, hey! they're different!
So a sneaky thief will lose to a crusader (damn overpowered bastards!) but he can irritate them quite a bit stealing their toothpicks.
A ranger can make someone an arrowcushion, but he can't really fight a tin can hoping his fragile weapons cut it into shreds.
The point is that Roleplay can be enjoyed, both when you're the winning and the losing side. It's fun to lose, it's even fun to always lose if other people can make it fun.
So you overpowered guys: Make it fun to lose!
and all the other poor little fragile things - relax and enjoy :)