thread dedicated to "+10 night sight of Sathos", a

[adanath]

Well Since the only thing I said about our actions was how Rex ran up and it wasn't too bright. And I confided in some others as to how my frustration was related towards the handling of the situation by my allies not Jezz and Alamar, anyways I never attacked anyone and got attacked..so it was natural of me to assume they could see in the dark. Of course I was quoted here, even though I apparently must say once again I didn't care because I didn't die! Ok I won't say that again. But that the whole situation frustrated me. Expecially if you notice in an earlier post when I said others wouldn't listen so we left.

Oh and by the way..Maybe Jezz couldn't see there were many more light sources than I first thought, but still if you run into a room get attacked virtually immediately and specials all into you everything almost hitting, it is quite a natural assumption that your foe can see quite well. Though perhaps their blindfighting was just exceptional. I don't care who comes and says anything, I called it a cheap shot and I will stick with that. I am not complaining about dying, nor am I saying anyone cheated etcetera. My two cents is that it was a cheap shot due to timing. Should the "good side" have won? Yes. and that is why I posted to begin with because of my frustration with the "whole" situation. However it was quite logical and viable to pursue the thought of darkness especially when one thinkns about cleric light in reference. Now I suppose I am done whining about dying (I mean not dying).

As to the paragraph I was quoted, I am sorry for not reviewing the logs to see if Jezz could see. From my point of view it sure seemed some people were able to function much better, but they likely just had a higher blindfighting skill.

[adanath]

Well as you can see my post has been moved to a topic that I didn't even create nor ever even said.

Beautiful.

Now in this very note I mentione that Jezz couldn't see yet still this was posted as a direct cut at me with the topic. Which is fine. As I also stated why it seemed apparent from one side that the other was doing much much better in darkness. However, as I even said in the above post most of my frustrations were not even due to Jezz, but then I am not sure if the post was read.

[Abharsair]

To Adanath: I moved your post into a separate thread since it has no place in the idea section. Everyone who is unhappy about their "performance" in the tundra tower and the injustice done to them there can continue his/her discussion here without hijacking the idea threads.

but still if you run into a room get attacked virtually immediately and specials all into you everything almost hitting, it is quite a natural assumption that your foe can see quite well.

You know what they say about "assumptions"? Yes? And it's even worse if you use those assumptions as facts.

I am not complaining about dying, nor am I saying anyone cheated etcetera.

You're maybe not complaining about dying, but you're complaining. Otherwise how would you explain the following statements:

while slight darkness is easy to overcome the darkness brought on by satho priests is not. Since I have been in it before with three levels of light to no avail.

Oh and I calculated wrongly there were between 4-6 sources of light in the room not 3. The human priest could see the entire time however.

Should the "good side" have won? Yes.

Let's look at your claims/complaints. "The human priest could see the entire time however." As already stated earlier, the human priest saw nothing most of the time. And when he saw something, he immediately casted darkness again. So that claim of yours is already wrong.

"Should the "good side" have won? Yes.". I am sorry, but the way the good side performed was so chaotic and unorganized that it's amazing someone actually survived. Let me summarize the fight and correct me if I'm wrong:

Code: Select all

You are killing undeads.
Jezz and Alamar run past you and walk upstairs into inside rooms.
Your team is downstairs of Jezz, Alamar and some undeads, blocking the only exit out.
Your team outnumbers the enemy 6 to 2.
Rex runs alone upstairs.
Rex gets killed.
Axstream, the team leader, turns solo-on and walks upstairs. Alone.
Adanath walks upstairs too.
It is dark upstairs. Axstream casts light.
Phelan walks in from below. It gets light enough for Axstream to see.
Herst walks in.
Jezz casts darkness. Axstream can still see.
Axstream casts light.
Phelan walks out down, taking his light with him. Axstream can no longer see.
Herst shouts for help.
Jezz casts darkness.
Alamar backstabs Axstream in the dark.
Alamar hits Axstream with a two-handed weapon.
Axstream is terribly hurt and casts thunder cloud. Doesn't go back, though.
Alamar is hit by the thunder cloud.
Jezz casts darkness.
Phelan walks back in from down and Axstream can see again.
Axstream is now at death's door and he starts casting flame renewal.
Jezz is hit by the thunder cloud.
Alamar is hit by the thunder cloud.
Ramandu walks in from downstairs
Adanath starts requesting an ability.
Axstream's thunder cloud hits Ramandu.
Ramandu attacks Axstream.
Ramandu wields no weapon though.
Axstream tries to run away and interrupts his flame renewal.
Axstream falls unconscious.
Axstream dies.
The team breaks up.
Alamar attacks Adanath.
Adanath finishes his ability request.
Thunder cloud hits Herst.
Thunder cloud hits Ramandu.
Thunder cloud hits Ramandu.
Thunder cloud hits Alamar.
Thunder cloud hits Ramandu.
<OOC>: Adanath chats: this is crap
Ramandu storms out up.
Ramandu storms in from up.
Adanath storms out down.

Etc.

That's only the beginning of the whole Greek tragedy, but you can't seriously claim that the reason you died was overpowering enemies and their abilities.

Now your last complaint: " while slight darkness is easy to overcome the darkness brought on by satho priests is not. Since I have been in it before with three levels of light to no avail." Wow. And here comes the thing which baffled me most after I read that:

An Asral Cleric can cast light within 4 seconds. A Sathonys Cleric needs 8 seconds for darkness. Axstream, who was able to see when Phelan was present, could have cast two lights for every darkness of Jezz, and could have made it light for everyone within twelve seconds.

So let me repeat it for all of you who think darkness is so mean: An Asral Cleric (and most like Taniel Cleric) casts twice as fast light than Sathos cast darkness.

As for sathos seeing in darkness three levels than anyone else. Yes, we are so dopped that our eyes have X-rays. Too bad you all (the rest of the world) suck.

You should be careful with those jokes. The last time you did that and told a certain person that masked people can't be located, he actually used that as argument for how we wizards code everything the evil guys want.

And something else. You can bring up legitimate complaints in this thread, or complaints of which you think are legitimate. However, if you bring up any rumors which you heard from your MSN or AIM buddy via messenger, or any other crap which a friend of a friend of your brother supposedly told someone, then I am going to delete the post, because I - and as I am quite sure many others - am completely tired of unfounded emo criticism which is solely based on hearsay.

[adanath]

to Abharsair: It was not that you moved it but that you asserted something that I never did. Now I clearly stated that I was wrong about Jezz being able to see, and for that I am sorry and that I stated in that very post. HOWEVER, I also stated the reasons why I assumed he could so I could show why I thought so erroneously. Yes I stated it as a fact and I shouldn't have, but my complaint and the way I feel about the situation had nothing to do with the darkness but rather as I said the actions of allies.


The should the good side have won complaint as you so call it is actually I am more remarking on the lack of strategy and intelligence used on the part of my team. Should they have won? Of course you misinterpret me. given the situation the good side should have stayed one down and waited and blocked out and prepared rather than going a couple at a time into a fully dark room unprepared. That is what I meant by should the good side have won. But I understand the confusion in the assumption you made.

Now I have copmplained about things..As I said I do not know how the darkness works or how any of it does, however I can tell you what we did. As I SAID multiple times I was wrong in saying the human priest could see and I should have thought before saying that. However I stated nothing other than what happened with the exception to that.

Jezz did great, like I said I personally considered it a bit of a cheap shot, but then the Good side SHOULD HAVE won. JUST LIKE I SAID INFERRING A LACK OF SKILL OR LACK OF PLANNING ON THE GOOD SIDE"S PART. Perhaps that will clear up the assumptions on that statement.

Now I don't know how many times I have to say I am sorry the human priest couldn't see and I shouldn't have stated it as a fact in that sentence. Yet I did, and I apologized for it before this post and in the above posts.

Also I would like to mention that the posts that you brought about were collected from a thread entirely on topic with the light issue. If priests can make it so dark others cannot see..just the same NO not mirror image but that is logical..so is making it so bright that peoiple can't see and it would be hard to "darken".

The while slight darkness is easy to overcome the darkness comment..well I suppose it is easy to contextually remove such things if you notice in other threads I remarked about how Taniels should have light that would blind as Taniel is the God of light. The fact is for me..it is not easy nor for a crusader. What did I do? I rubbed my ring and invoked something that brings light as well, (though how much I cannot say for as I constantly say in my posts I do not know the code). It is not easy to overcome as a Tshahark or a crusader. That is not a complaint it is a fact. As to why there wasn't light Jezz obviously had casted an unbelievable amount of darkness, and as I said it appeared to me that him and Alamar could see despite it, whcih now as it has been CLEARLY brought up they could not, and I should not ahve stated it for fact (I am making sure everyone knows).

However statement 1
a statement made that is true from a character that it holds true to. I was not complaining merely mentioning. I carry around 2 lamps and a ring for this very reason yet sometimes it still is not easy. People made it seem like it is the easiest thing in the world. It isn't. I'm not complaining..I am remarking. Also rather than rob this statement of context it is best to know that I meant it this way because we were talking about a light miracle for Taniels. It was said dark was easy to deal with. My response was simply saying that it is not always easy to deal with as I had a hard time with multiple light items myself in a few levels of darkness. It makes sense with a blinding light this would reciprocate. As you can see the statment fits much better when taken in context. This statement was made on a different thread.

Statement 2 was a complaint which in the above posts and previous posts I mentioned I should not have made such.

Statemenet 3 was misinterpreted by Abharsair.

So yes I complained about one thing that I blatantly mistated and had no right to do so.

I never argued the fault of the fight or that the Good side should have won and the evil side was just too overpowered..when I said the Good side should have won. I MEANT the good side beat themselves. Geez

[Abharsair]

Ah, so the statement "the good side should have won" meant actually "The good side had the means to win but was too incompetent to achieve it"? If that's the case then I agree wholeheartedly.

And maybe you (Adanath) considered your own allies to be more at fault than your enemies, however you calling their tactics a cheap shot, and the comments of your allies who also posted throughout the thread made it sound like a general complaint about the "uberness of your invincible enemies". If that was not your intention, then I apologize to you (Adanath).

Now, concerning your comment about it being a cheap shot... well, after reading the logs I have to say that both Jezz and Alamar showed a lot of cojones and brain from an OOC point of view. Taking on six not-so-small enemies alone shows quite some courage, especially because they should have died if the good team would have just shown a minimum of tactical knowledge. I wouldn't have bet a copper coin on Jezz or Alamar's life prior to the fight if I would have watched it when it happened. That's not a cheap shot, though. Cheap shots are killing enemies while they return looted items, or killing someone right outside the shrine where he got resurrected. Or killing a newbie. But not facing alone a 3:1 outnumbering force which has plenty of means to defeat the two guys without breaking into sweat.

[adanath]

Well that is exactly what I meant but I didn't want to go in about complaining about players actions plus I am sure I could have done different as well. so instead I talked about what I saw, and I was in error on the darkness issue.even though I guess in a way that is what I did in calling it a cheap shot, but it was simply my opinion. I am not saying it wasn't a good plan or anything..I am just remarking that while a side faces a large ic challenge as large as this for other than this and insect portal and lifequests there aren't hardly any larger, I would have waited. No that wouldn't even be as good of roleplay, Jezz and Alamar should roleplay wise attack every time they see a team vulnerable, but in these large cases as well as with some other issues which people bring up sometimes you may just let people finish or go.

As far as a cheap shot..Well I think it was cheaper when four of them tracked me down inside the tower, but I don't really care. It doesn't bother me about dying or anything..except I don't have a lot of time to play and it seems to take FOR FRIGGIN ever to recover. Though maybe it is just because of the nature of my generally afkish play. Oh but back to the cheap shot, I don't think it was cheap in that it was 2v5 or 6..I am not even sure how many because I came in on the tail end, but the portal is something good guys have to defend, and it is easy to die in the tundra, not to mention all the undeads that are everywhere. What Jezz and Alamar did WAS strategic, very much so, yet I still considered it cheap just because I mean come on..we were fighting to close a portal..I know they didn't know we died..but in such cases like insect portals and tundra portals when the players already have more than they can handle about and have died multiple times and had to find their loot multiple times in a situation they can't control....well I would have waited. That's all. great strategy I agree, great playing it out, stupid play on many other's parts, but to me and that is all I say to me it was cheap..and I didn't die. I am just saying that.
Besides what the hell does all this have to do with the price of beans in china.

[Abharsair]

But you seem to assume that the portal closed is its natural state, which it isn't. The portal closed has the same importance to the game as it has when it's opened, and for the Sathos it's unnatural and mean if you guys close it. You also completely ignore that the Sathos die as well when they try to open it (as has happened recently), and they would have the same right to call closing it a cheap shot as you have when they open it.

Someone also said that the undeads who roam the tundra are a danger to others, etc. Sure, but the gate closed is a danger to the evil players and Asador. Again, just the other side of the same coin.

So what's your idea? That no one is allowed to defend the tower when a team tries to open or close it?

[adanath]

Well I highly doubt it closed is quite as dangerous for evil players as it open for good due to the unbelievable amount of undeads. But I don't know because I am not looking from that perspective.

It may be inconvenient but how is it nearly or even remotely closely as dangerous?

I know we die when we try to get to it to close it and have to fight through a whole whole whole lot more. Unless there are things that pop out of the portal that attack evil players that I don't know about.

but there is no threat that I know of like this that evil players have to fend off, and though you say it is a danger and I know they have to fight three guards and possibly sac themselves how is it so dangerous? Because of a lack of evil creatures? I understand where you are coming from but that isn't really equatable. Like I said maybe I am a homer speaking from the good side, but enlighten me then.

[Abharsair]

It may be inconvenient but how is it nearly or even remotely closely as dangerous?

Last time I watched an evil team open the portal, one out of four players died and another one lost an arm. A third one nearly died. And those four players were very experienced.

Now, compared to the good side's last attempt to close it this sounds pretty tame, but I also watched two Taniel Priests close the portal alone without any deaths. And one time two Crusaders closed it alone. So there are good and bad days for both sides.

[Blizt]

I will agree from first hand experiance that the main problem lies with the good side and their allies. I won't go into details, and I know I have done some stupid things before as well, but not every fight that occurs.

Right now, I will also willingly admit that if the players of the "good" side were to actually care about winning fights, or actually used good judgement during most situations, they would hardly ever loose. They do have what I consider the biggest advantage on the mud, Tshaharks. Their weapons and armours are in the range of good to great as well I think. Apart from that, they seem to be at a very severe disadvantage usually because of lots of other factors. The Taniel Clerics miracles seem to be very weak. (I am sure the blame lies outside of the code and with other things, such as the wordly power) They also accept complete noobies that are not used to chaotic situations or fights. This once again is the job of the "good" side to train them to be effective.

Now, this all makes sense and the problem could be easily fixed with training and tactics, however the biggest problem is that alot of "good" players dont really care what happens. They join a guild, because its easy to join and they like the idea of it. Now these people are part of a struggle in which people will rely on them heavily, and I know I always stressed this to them and tried to force them to train and listen and think in situations, but that almost never seemed to work. Some of them openly stated that they dont care if they live or die, or about winning a battle and so forth.
Maybe this is a good attitude, but this is not the way I and some others see things. I personally dont like dying repeatedly due to others not caring. I dont like being forced to rescue people who dont care if they live or die and dont give much of an effort in a fight to win.

So, in the end we have 2 teams usually. Team 1 has alot of inexperianced, young members with mediocre abilities and a lack of motivation to win.
Team 2 has a few experianced members with decent to strong abilites and a desire to destroy team 1.

This is the real problem I think, and I am sorry for whinning about the code to this point. This is also why most good chars that dont like dying constantly always mention how they want to turn evil, or are frustrated with playing and always loosing.

As long as I have played this mud, and with all the things I have witnessed, I am the only person I know of to kill Jezz when he wasn't utterly outnumbered, and that was mostly because I got lucky.

Sure the abilities some guilds have are annoying, and gives them a very huge advantage over others, especially when they learn to use them effectively. Also, when this occurs, it usually places them in a position that unless they are very unlucky, they will win. Especially when they care more than the others.

[Blizt]

It may be inconvenient but how is it nearly or even remotely closely as dangerous?

Last time I watched an evil team open the portal, one out of four players died and another one lost an arm. A third one nearly died. And those four players were very experienced.

Now, compared to the good side's last attempt to close it this sounds pretty tame, but I also watched two Taniel Priests close the portal alone without any deaths. And one time two Crusaders closed it alone. So there are good and bad days for both sides.

You know, one time I was at the crossing. I knew that Jezz and Jegga had entered to Tower of Pain. I ran to the Tower (I did take a very short detour though) by the time I got there Jegga and Jezz had already opend the portal and undeads were inside the tower already. That was a speedy opening, and didnt seem near as dangerous as closing it.

However, I remember once myself and Tatiana closed the portal in matter of minutes, right after the first skeleton cut my head off
Of course, if one evil char, like Jezz had been around at that time, he would have killed us both. One of the biggest advantages I think the sathos have is the ability to raise undead, and walk aroudn all those undeads that dont attack them. You can say whatever you like about this not being a big advantage, but from my experiance those undeads can be just as helpful as a player of decent experiance.

[jezz]

About this thread, I just have to say that it's quite sad that you force a wizard to show OOC info so you stop complaining. Not as much for Abh's desperation (I don't give a f**k about that moron ) but because we can't use that trick anymore Don't worry, there are more to make you chat happily on MSN about our beam farts.

About the light blindness. I agree it's quite logical, but what would be its use? Everyone would be blind in light. Maybe you could code that dwarves and darkelves get blind slightly faster than other races but ... I don't see the use on battles where everyone is blind, rather than having all crusties from now on training with blindfolds.

[Abharsair]

Not as much for Abh's desperation (I don't give a f**k about that moron ) but because we can't use that trick anymore

Te quiero puta!

[kaspars]

good guys win - they rock, everything is fine and supposed to be so. Forum is silent and constructive.
bad guys win - forum is filled with useless threads telling how seriously everything is screwed up and it`s not supposed to be so. Everbody has to calm down seriously disappointed people, patiently explain reasons of their humiliation and give advices how to avoid futher defeats (for example - tell them not to run around naked).

Flame? .. No, obsevation.

And I would add - the best way to annoy people, who log in to read about real ideas or discuss real bugs.