scout

[vurdijak]

If I read this right, scout is a skill to determine how well you look into the next room. While I like the idea behind the changes, I wonder if we really need a skill attached to simply looking into the next room. I would rather eyesight be based on races than on a skill.

Also, it seems every char., who wants to look into the next room and see whats there, will have to develop their scout skill. This one seems like it will be omnipresent, at least to anyone who has a mind to survive. Since almost everyone will want to learn it, the older chars. will struggle to do so while the younger ones will quickly master it. This gives the younger characters an advantage, because this skill is based on the command 'look'. Not complaining about this last part, just noting it down and hoping for it to be rebutted.

[tarlon]

The thieves had an unfailable command called glance in the passed it was based on trickery. But i have to say looking into another room has nothing to do with trickery. This command have been removed and exchanged with the new scout skill and the command scout <direction>. Perhaps the skill should improve while simply looking in a room. But i think this new skill scout and the scout command is something where chars like rangers should be realy happy about. They don`t need to learn a skill that belongs to criminals like trickery. Every ranger like char that isn`t in a guild is able to learn it. And a crusader can`t benifit to much from this skill anyway the will not manage to scout successfully against highly aware persons in their plate/chainmails.

[isengoo]

'Scout'ing a room also checks your hide/sneak, not just your scout skill, as well as your armour types. It is basically as poTarlon says, a great skill that should be accessible to everyone, not just those in the Thieves guild.

Now, as far as the skill and races are concerned, I wouldn't be opposed to elves starting with more points in it than humans, or something like that, similar to how starting skills work now. But that should be left to the wizards, IMO. And yes, I do think that looking into the "next room", as we MUDers like to call it, should be a skill, because often these 'rooms' are large expanses of wilderness, and discerning what is and isn't a creature and how large it is, etc., sounds like a skill to me.

Concerning older folks having a harder time learning it, well, they have a whole bunch of other skills at their maximum to take pleasure in, I don't think not being able to see what kind of creature is in the next room for a few days will hurt them much

[Delia]

I hope this doesn't penalize tshaharks too much, as using the skill uses mana even just for looking into other rooms. Still, guess it can be viewed as a good drawback for those immense physical stats and ease of combat learning. On the whole I view this as a good change as such option(glance) being only readily available to thieves did always strike to me as bit odd, and this gives the common elf a chance to shine(mentals, mentals). Also, I would not worry about old characters having hard time learning the skill, as its pretty easy to practice.

[Alamar]

I can go on record as saying that I had one of the best trickery skills in the game and I happily give it up so that rangers and others might have "scout." As others have noted, scouting and thieving are completely different and this will allow people to distinguish between the sneaky and the criminal.

I do think Vurdijak's question about "scout" shooting up like crazy just by using "look" is a valid one. "Look" is perhaps the most common command in the game and I hope it doesn't turn "scout" into one of the most common skills in the game.

[Delia]

While the skill is going to be quite common IMO, its is most propably mental-based and listed in thief skill-group if it means anything. There are also many other quite common skills in game, which many characters share, like hiding and sneaking for example, and like with them, its doubtful if all characters will be true masters of the skill.

[vurdijak]

While looking into the next 'room' and determining whats there may require skill, I still do not feel that these new changes have been implemented in the best way. I like the code, when you look into the next room and can see creatures etc. I like the fact that any character can learn to scout. What I do not like is that every char. must learn to scout just to look into the next room, and that this task drains a significant amount of mana. The scout skill should be based on scouting, and looking into the next room should be based on eyesight and awareness. My suggestions are to lower or eliminate mana cost from looking into the next room, and to disassociate the look command from the scout skill.

[Abharsair]

I consider the look command to be similar to let's say tracking. Both cost mana. Both can be easily trained. Both are useful. However, both are purely optional.

Making the look command depend solely on "eye-sight" would be in my opinion unfair. Eye-sight would have to be defined by race and would be an unchanging factor, and I don't quite see why an elvish newbie scribe who never left a city should be better at peeking through the wilderness into the next room than a high-level human ranger who grew up in a forest. Or to use an RL example, if I am sitting in an Amazonian jungle and try to look as far ahead as possible, I am quite sure I wouldn't register nearly as much useful information as an Indian native would. Even if my eye-sight is as good as his. Could I learn to be as good as the Indian? Absolutely. And that's what the scout skill indicates.

Last but not least, it is true that some improve the scout skill quickly, but those are usually the ones who have due to their specialization a high bonus on the skill category the scout skill is a part of. Also, no one yet has reached really high levels of this skill yet, and the improvement rate will slow down immensely once it does.

[vurdijak]

Ok thanks for the clarification.