Geas

Greetings to all.

The people who knows me knows that I don't like to whine often. Many times I simply take things icly and try to do what I can with the cards I'm given. I won't say sathos are weak, because we are not, I won't say crusaders or taniels are overpowered, because they are not, I won't even say that Abharsair is a man, because he is not.

This is, as the topic states, a supplication. A supplication for the wizards, as strange as it may sound, that they don't count us the evils as " a funny add-on for the MUD that will make goodies life funnier ". We are players too.

We like to have fun, and as long as Geas has existed, we have tried to do so mainly by using our imagination. We invented roleplaying rules for us, for our god, laws and stories came from nowhere but our imagination, and we started to play it. In the process, we tried to make the whole MUD involved with them, such as the death punishment for speaking HIS name aloud and such, and we're really proud to think we're spicing a bit the gameplay of other players.

But I'm tired, and I don't like the feeling. I'm tired that everything is coded for the MUD is designed ONLY for goodies. I'm tired that my favourite zone of GEAS, Eal-Deliah, was designed for goodies, even if I'm sure 95% of the goodies know less about the chances that city is offering than Jezz. I'm tired that every life quest is thought for goodies, like a half-demon-ogre harassing legios and such. I'm tired too, that when sathos got a nice weapon type, the spear, suddenly crusaders changed their weapons from axe and chain to an awesome very-long lance that can be held with a hand or two and that, apparently designed to be a rider lance, is suddenly able to hack through undeads like butter. Because, you know, if crusaders needed rider lances, they already existed, and trust me, my crusader newbie could clean half Eal-Deliah 5 days after creating it with axe and chain, so I don't really think such an improvement was needed. I'm not aiming at crusaders, rangers suddenly got spears too into their arsenal, even if I think their own bow is a spear itself.

And I didn't care about it a lot. I continued playing and I tried to turn all that against them.

But today was too much. We tried to go to Kyir, because, maybe you don't believe me but, we also like to have fun with things coded in GEAS. So we plan a strategy, go to Kyir to start testing our strategy "on the field", and what do we discover?

The demons there don't bleed... are barely injured by our miracles... and some times they even resist them... Hmmm, wait... sounds familiar to me... tic tac, tic tac... Oh! Eal-Deliah! Undeads! Damn, I wish there would be someone who could hack through undeads like butter............. *brighten* Darn.

So... no, I'm sorry wizs of GEAS, but no. Imho, and I say imho, this is WAY TOO MUCH.

I'm a player of GEAS too, not the most important, not the less, just a player, and I think I have _as much_ right to enjoy it as the rest of players.

If you reached this far, thanks for reading me.

Carlos

Just to add a bit .. it seems _everybody_ is thinking that the only meaning of life for us is to chase crusaders&Co. No, it is not so, sometimes we like to explore and see other areas then faun forest and faeries (weird, isnt it?). Sadly every time we try it, we are stuck .. why .. see previous post.

By the way, I didn't mention it:

I know the evil guys are very few, and that coding something for us is not... "very tasty"

I'm not asking for things coded for us, I'm begginf for zones, concepts, items, roleplaying events, coded for everyone...

I personally love how the evils play the mud, how many of them are very true to their RP and everything, but playing a goodie I notice that most of the mud is coded for goodies, or maybe I just dont know where to get to the other stuff, or what... But its alot harder to play an evil... I dont know what Im trying to say, except thank you to you guys that do play evils, because you make my life much more fun when Im stressed about being attacked *grin*

poEndellion

I think all the sathos players should be given a lot of credit for what they do. Without them, a lot of us would have a dulled down geas.

But don't attack the rangers' needed weapons (*cough* my main weapon):

rangers suddenly got spears too into their arsenal

Just to add a bit .. it seems _everybody_ is thinking that the only meaning of life for us is to chase crusaders&Co

Kaspars, I really doubt that. Most of what people or characters think is that you are just "evil," (whatever that means to the character) and enjoy torturing, harrassing, and making slaves out of people ect. Therefore, "_everybody_" believes that the crusaders and co are trying to STOP you, not you stopping them from being "good." That is what the "goodies" wants everyone to think, and I believe it's a widely accepted view. Geas roleplay also causes people to view the "goodies" in a better light when they hear of "valiant" attempts of characters trying to stop you from turning elvandar guards into ghouls. Is this all bad? I don't think so, but it does mean recruitment for baddies is extremely hard(which is a whole other topic).

So: If this topic was not directed just at the wizards,
Jezz, perhaps you could offer somethings you are interested in so that we as players can help think of ideas and then wizards can respond. I'd be happy to offer up my imagination to thinking of cool ideas if I could figure out what page you are on.

i really think that this is an amazing idea. never having been a sathos before on geas i didn't actually realize until now exactly how hard they have it. this post to me was quite enlightening and should have some small or maybe even large repercussions (hopefully). it should be just as easy for either side (bad or good) to recruit members to their cause. geas, while not an mmo is very similar to one. and in every mmo ive played you can choose good or bad from the very start and have areas and quests to do in both cases.

personally i think this would be awesome.

Just a few things that the 'northerners' might lobby for, to spice things up, up there:

A secondary guild, like scribes, alchemists, but something within Asador or very close by. Ok its not exactly a city suited for the pursuit of knowledge, but maybe a rival skald guild, with its own set of songs, with their own effects (even different songs with some of the same effects)?
Lets see, certainly eerie songs with twisted lyrics would be an interesting addition.

One could be either from the Arborea skalds or the Asador skalds, and one would probably not like the other very much.

And/or

The ability to order custom items in their city.

And/or

A craft guild or two, maybe to supplement the secondary guild? Or even as stand alones. All those musk ox hides, no where to tan them!

And/or

Either a twin northern city, or an addition to Asador, maybe an outlying area protected only by a low lying wall. An adjunct to the city proper, with 'evil' farmers who need protection, but expand the domain up there. But what crops grow in the arctic? Not sure I'm from Texas.

I think a lot of Jezz's note revolves around the relative world size for evils and everyone else. One thing that comes to my mind though, is, what possibilites might the new continent open up for them? What seedy town might they inhabit over there, if any?

How about a coastal city or port on the new continent that only has ship routes shared with Asador?
You want to get to the best entry port into the new continent? You wont be able to unless you are from Asador, because the only ship that goes theres is from Asador and wont allow anyone on board that isnt from Asador.

Just ideas, since someone asked for them.

A lot of this has been discussed before, especially here:

viewtopic.php?t=32

and here:

viewtopic.php?t=65&highlight=quest+reward+evil

In thread #2, Kortha wrote: There could be quests with multiple solutions that have nothing to do with good/evil/race/gender/etc. differences too. Say you have a kingdom ruled by a king and queen who are having marital problems. The king wants you to kill the queen, and the queen wants you to kill the king. You can obviously only do one or the other, and if they had vivid personalities you could just use your char's rp to decide which to kill. Or maybe there'd even be a solution where you help them work out their differences and get an even bigger reward...only to have them start arguing again by the time the next person needs to do the quest. Razz (Hmm...if the quest had a long reset time, that kingdom's whole atmosphere could even be totally different depending on whether they're currently arguing or not.)

I'm sure we can all think of many games with similar foundations for quests. The ones that come to mind for me are Black & White and Fable. A good in-game example is a quest in which a kobold guards a statue. You can either spare the kobold's life and acquire the statue through diplomacy or ruthlessly gut him and take it.

Vurdijak wrote: A secondary guild, like scribes, alchemists, but something within Asador or very close by. Ok its not exactly a city suited for the pursuit of knowledge, but maybe a rival skald guild, with its own set of songs, with their own effects (even different songs with some of the same effects)?
Lets see, certainly eerie songs with twisted lyrics would be an interesting addition.

Instead of evil skalds versus good skalds (which is silly, considering how evil many skalds there are), I think a unique guild would be better - something like a disease-making guild or a taxidermy / embalming guild. Of course, such a thing would require a wizard with years of spare time.

vurdijak wrote: How about a coastal city or port on the new continent that only has ship routes shared with Asador?
You want to get to the best entry port into the new continent? You wont be able to unless you are from Asador, because the only ship that goes theres is from Asador and wont allow anyone on board that isnt from Asador.

Just ideas, since someone asked for them.

Yes. I'd love to see the evils get someplace that they can actually start from. It would do wonders for recruiting if there was actually somewhere relatively safe to be a young evil.

Also, I think it would be great if all the fun higher end coded areas were accessible to both evils and goods and not firmly set in either's 'strongholds'. This would keep tensions between the two high in the world rather than creating twin areas for people to train, which in my opinion, would lead to a decrease in the infinitely fun pvp. For those of you who have played it, WoW did an excellent job with this general idea in it's "contested" areas.

They desperately are in need of a layman guild too. I see no reason why a wealthy ruling class area of Asador can't exist and support a branch of the scribes or alchemists. Same idea with any crafting guilds.

GEAS is not an equal opportunity MUD.

I agree with Isengoo wholeheartedly.

Also Jezz, just to let you know - Kyir isn't hard for just baddies. It's hard for everyone. Of all the people that have tried to go there, the only ones I know that were ever successful were large teams of crusaders and tanielites. And not because of their miracles and abilities (which are no more effective against the demons as any other group's abilities or miracles), but because they mostly consist of tshahark fighters and elven healers, which is a well-set team for any bashing party, regardless of guild association.

Well thats the point he was trying to make I think. Tshahark fighters and Elven healers (or any real healers for that matter) only exist on the good side.

And whose fault is that?

And whose fault is that?

Tessa,

this is not a question of fault or not. It's simply roleplay and we're pretty strict for that. Tshaharks were created to destroy the insects, so we're not going to take up a tshahark at Asador easily. This whole topic has nothing to do with 'what races are playing where in Geas' - its about areas that are mainly coded for extreme goodies and their possibilities.

poAragog

**snip**

This whole topic has nothing to do with 'what races are playing where in Geas' - its about areas that are mainly coded for extreme goodies and their possibilities.

Again, Kyir isn't an "area mainly coded for extreme goodies". It's hard for everyone. Evil, neutral, and good. Or do I need to count the number of 'goodie' (and neutral, too) ghosts that have come from this place that you feel is coded specifically for them?

Take it from someone that has accompanied some of these 'extreme goodies' to Kyir a fair few times- it's a challenge for everyone.

I'm sorry if baddies don't have the numbers to survive on Kyir. If it makes you feel better, even the people that do have the numbers get their rears sliced and diced quite often.

I don't know if I can appreciate the whole "Geas is not an equal opportunity MUD" line of thought.

As players and as characters, Jezz & Co. have added so much to this mud. I'd even go so far as saying that it was the Sathos that got me hooked, already about 4 years ago.

These are not slouching players, in roleplay or in game terms. They add unique touches, fight with great strategy, and manage to do fairly well with almost the whole MUD against them. They have in my experience also played very fairly, treating newbies well (and I think that taking the time to roleplay a friendly "introduction to Sathonite theology" torture session counts!) and doing the very difficult job of being the foil to the good of Forostar.

I'd say that for as much as it's not an equal opportunity MUD, they've gone far beyond the average in many respects. And I say the very same for the excellent players on the side of good.

Jezz's request is not without some merit. I don't know what the wizards plan - and perhaps they're working on something right now, so this is not a criticism. I liked the idea of areas of importance to both "camps" as Itenin mentioned.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw in my two cents. I think that if there was more to do for the Asador-bound Sathonites, etc., then everyone would benefit by keeping some of our best players interested in doing the service of being bad.

Greetings all.

First of all, I want to thank anyone who expressed his/her thanks for our playing. In my case, the feeling mutual.

Second, I'd like to remark again, that my post was not to ask zones, guilds or anything _just_ for the evil side. I didn't ask for training zones _only for us_, or guilds only for us. As I stated before, I think we (the evils) enjoy breaking our heads trying to think of ways to overcome difficulties and still get close to victory

Third, for Aragog and Tessa, I didn't start this thread aiming so we (the players) discuss among ourselves about who gets more trouble and who gets less. My point was objective and I'll try to explain it more clearly.

Eal-Deliah-> Undeads
Crusaders vs Undeads: Their weapons do more damage to them. They have powers that help them against evil creatures.
Taniels vs Undeads: Their miracles are specially suited for them, since smite does damage depending on evilness of enemy and doesn't cause to bleed, an aspect that doesn't really count against undeads. They also have turn. They can cure the disease.

Kyir-> Demons
Crusaders vs Demons: Their weapons can or can't do more damage to them, I really don't know icly. They have powers that help them against evil creatures.
Taniels vs Demons: Their miracles are specially suited for them, since smite does damage depending on evilness of enemy and doesn't cause to bleed, an aspect that doesn't really count against demons.

The fact that even in that situation, goodies died at Kyir, is imho, pointless. Because I don't think the wizard that created it, even if aimed for them, wanted the good side to clean the island easily.

But for anyone who knows a bit about the sathos' powers, can easily discover we CAN'T do anything at either Kyir or Eal-Deliah (anything fun, I mean, not killing two skeletons or a demon there).

Again, I want to point out that those two examples are just that, examples. Big ones, but there are more.

If by any chance, my thoughts about our inhability to have fun with that areas is wrong, I'd like to know, without details, and I'll beg for mercy to whoever I "insulted" with my attitude.

But this was not a feeling I suddenly felt, it's something I have been trying to hold back for many years by now.

I will thank you all for good words - it lets us understand we are on the right path and therefore we promise even more torture, gore and ghouls

GEAS is not an equal opportunity MUD.

Indeed .. and _usually_ I even like it.


About Asador, elves, former Taniel priests etc.
Tessa - I would recommend to avoid discussing topics without real knowledge about them or speculate with outdated information as it causes wrongful rumours. Such rumours lead to frustration and does no good for both sides.

edited: again Jezz managed to post before me ...

kaspars wrote:About Asador, elves, former Taniel priests etc.
Tessa - I would recommend to avoid discussing topics without real knowledge about them or speculate with outdated information as it causes wrongful rumours. Such rumours lead to frustration and does no good for both sides.

Actually, I know it a bit better than you might guess. But since I got into specifics that don't belong on a public board, I'll remove them to be polite. I still stand by my point, however.

But the point is derailed from what I tried to imply to Itenin:

As far as I know, there is no rule that says tshaharks have to be good, and are not allowed to be evil. If players wish to make their tshaharks good, that is their choice. Just the same as it's the choice of Sathos to not accept tshaharks for whatever reason. However, in my opinion, it's silly to say "tshaharks fighters only exist on the good side" in a "this gives x side an advantage" tone, when it's very possible to change this, but the involved parties simply choose not to. I don't mean to criticize them for this (and apologies for doing so with sathos), but in my opinion, it's just a situation where if you want it to change, it's perfectly within your power to do so.