Luminier/Alts

[Grindel]

Anyway while we're on the topic, what I find amusing is how America treats violence casually but condemns nudity as the work of Satan, yet other countries out there seem to treat violence as the dark sin of mankind but treat nudity like the natural condition it is. Or at least that's the impression I've been given.

Yes, and we do not even need to apply for a concealed nudity permit, they are implicitly granted! Equally, unsheathing in public is allowed only in cases of self defence or on special firing ranges and nudism beaches.

[Naga]

America, with the world's largest and most lucrative pornography industry, attracting men and women from all around the world, with addiction to smut reaching everywhere in our society, with television characters engaging in implied or explicit sex twice as much as in 1998, seems to be keeping up pace fairly well. Heck, I look in the local phone-book and see 12 pages of listings for escort (prostitution) services.

I don't notice any body anxieties in America. Even traveling through the South, you see in the middle of nowhere just off the expressways gigantic smut warehouses under the names like "Adult Superstore." Even in the mainstream movies put out by Hollywood are getting racier and racier, with even privy members put on display for public consumption. Judd Apatow (not his Hebrew name), a successful producer and director of comic films has said:

We went with different angles to make sure there weren't too much testicles being shown... America fears the penis and that's something I'm going to help them get over.

I'm gonna get a penis in every movie I do from now on. When this writers strike ends, that is my dream. It really makes me laugh in this day and age, with how psychotic our world is, that anyone is troubled by seeing any part of the human body; that is amusing to me.

The changes in the fabric of this country, rather than arising from a simple debasement of its people, are in large part orchestrated from above. Powerful elements of the media share fundamental assumptions and social goals, and, whether it is their intention to remodel the consciousness of the people or is simply a case of a bad tree bearing bad fruit, they generate materials that harden hearts when consumed. So it happened that we saw decades ago teen pregnancies in popular sitcoms and, more recently, the ever-present happy-go-lucky gay guy character that's just like you. There's a tremendous amount of vocal resistance to this sort of thing, so much that we call the political climate a "Culture War," but even so we're doing pretty well in the whole "work of Satan" business.

[tessa]

I was leaning towards things like public television. Murder and violence is okay on TV, but nudity is strictly not allowed, at least not on public/free channels. Whereas anything not explicitly gory is.. what, pg-13 at best? Nudity is always 18+.

[adanath]

The areas in the south which have the most guns per capita also have the least violence in the country. Kids are taught to respect guns and use them as tools to hunt and most importantly defend their families with if it should ever come to that.

Also to speak of nudity, I agree with you it is a shame however, when I was in Europe I was apalled to see it in magazines sitting out for anyone to pick up. Random magazines that were not even pornographic and on billboards.

[sun]

Personally, I could never imagine living in a country where I would be denied the access to arm myself. Anyways, I'm still waiting to get my concealed carry permit, once I get that, I may actually buy my own pistol. Glock 19 maybe?

I find that quite sick.. but perhaps that's because I come from a country where most people never saw a gun on anything else than a police officer or a military..

[tessa]

Well, there's a motto in the US, something along the lines of 'God, guns, and guts made this country free, let's keep all three'.

We're very heavy in our belief of freedom and the right to defend ourselves, especially from people who intend to do harm to ourselves or our families.

And I do feel it does lower crime, because most people know how to handle guns responsibly, if a criminal wants a gun, he's going to get one whether it's legal or not, and lastly, few people want to try to rob/carjack/mug someone at gun-point who may very well have a gun of their own.

[ganandorf]

This is just my opinion here, i looked but couldnt find any facts to prove it
But im pretty sure that the US has a higher crime/murder rate than Canada.

In my opinion the fact that anyone in the states has a "right to bear arms" is kind of wrong. I dont know how rigorous the testing process or how hard it is to get a license but i dont think it is that hard (im probably wrong). Meaning there are alot of people out there who are completely psychotic and can carry guns. Eg. All those emo bastards that run into schools shooting up the place because they cant handle the shit going on in their own lives.

Not to mention the stupid people who have guns just sitting in their house where their children can go and easily pick up a gun, and try out the new grand theft auto RL version

^^Im not trying to be offensive to americans even if it came out like that, i just think its better to not be able to carry guns. I dont carry a gun around with me, and cant ever see myself carrying one around.

[adanath]

Well perhaps for the sake of logic before you start approximating and guessing due to pseudo-political and philisophical leanings you should actually go to the places you criticize. The places in America with high murder rates are not the places with high legal gun ownership.

The places in America with high gun ownership per capita have the LOWEST murder and violence rates.

Whether or not you agree with these laws or not, they are foundational laws within this country and fundamental rights of the citizens. If you don't agree with them and hate them, fine with me. Don't move here.

Lets take away the guns so people won't tend to be so violent. Poppycock. Take away the guns from the legal citizens, now you just have criminals who have guns. A study of history could prove provocative once you look at the nations who did take away from conquered nations or their provinces the rights to bear any arms.

I have lived in the south all my life virtually. In places where there may be 3-4 guns per person. In all the places I have lived there has been one murder that I have known of. I would much rather kids learn the dangers of guns at very early ages, how to safely handle them and the consequences of mis-handling them from responsible adults who have used them their whole life rather than from tv alone when they first see their first gun.

Unfortunately, an almost perfect inverse correlation exists between those who are affected by gun laws, particularly bans, and those whom enforcement should affect. Those easiest to disarm are the responsible and law abiding citizens whose guns represent no meaningful social problem. Irresponsible and criminal owners, whose gun possession creates or exacerbates so many social ills, are the ones most difficult to disarm.

Research tends to point out that legal gun ownership decreases violent crime.

***^ a b Tennessee Law Review, "Guns and Public Health: Epidemic of Violence or Pandemic of Propaganda?", 1994.

***# ^ Gary A. Mauser, Simon Fraser University, Don B. Kates, retired; Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International Evidence

Pointedly statistics can be twisted to show about whatever the interpreter wishes them to show. I am of the opinion before you speak of something as fact you should have first-hand experience. Which I do. Many of the areas I have lived in have been some of the highest legal firearm per capita areas in the state, and country and have seen virtually 0 violent crime.

If you don't like a law that enables citizens to have guns, fine. That is your opinion and right to feel so. Just as I will never move to a country that does not allow citizens to have firearms.

[jezz]

Ehrrmmmm... here in Spain citizens need a special license to buy a gun, and I can say that we are doing fairly well leaving the "shooting" to the police.

But as Adanath said, it is a matter of point of view..........

[adanath]

The problem in America is not legalized weapons. It is rather the failure of police forces and other authorities to enforce the already mandated laws on weapons. The vast majority of the time crimes are committed with firearms the possession of the firearm or the firearm itself is illegal or illegally sold. No revocation will change this, only enforcing that which is already there.

[Ancale]

Actually Adanath and Tessa are right. As a mom, my son is five, and has his own rifle, a .22 long rifle. He goes out with me to the range and already understands the ideas of how to handle a gun and how dangerous they can be in the wrong hands. But he also knows not to touch it without supervision. He takes care of his gun himself, he cleans it every time we go to the range, and it is his responsibility (although I do keep it in a gun safe here at home). In the city I live, 40% of people are registered to carry a concealed weapon, and our crime rate is actually relatively low. Like someone else (I think it was Tessa) pointed out, people are less likely to threaten someone when they are unsure if the person they are threatening will be carrying a weapon themselves. I do however also keep a 12 gauge 8 shot pump action shotgun, a .45 semi-automatic springfield, and a .38 special s&w revolver in the house as well. My son knows where they all are, and not to touch them. I would rather raise him to understand than take the risk that he will come across one at a friends house when he is older and not have the knowledge.

[sun]

But what are you going to do if someone tries to rob you? Shoot him?

EDIT: I mean I realize that the threat of having a concealed gun is the main point here.. but still.. you have to shoot someone for a stupid thing.

[adanath]

Part of training and growing up with guns is keeping your cool when you have firearms. Knowing when to use them and when not to. If someone was breaking into my house and threatened my or my families safety, you are damn right I would shoot them.

[ganandorf]

I can understand owning a gun if you know how to use it, and owning one in a home with kids if they are taught to use it properly. But what are your thoughts about people who own guns in a house with children and they dont teach their kids how to use it properly, for example that case somewhere in the states no idea where when two kids stole their dads rifle and shot at cars passing by on the highway. Or the fact that in some cases it appears to be so easy to get a gun, as an example (though it may be an extreme one) ill use the Columbine shootings, The two people who did that got an older friend of theres to buy them guns (obviously for them it was obtained illegally but the older person was able to get it legally). What are your thoughts on those two things just out of curiousity? And do you think the gun laws should be a bit more strict?

[Abharsair]

First, I'd like to state that I think every country should be able to decide on its own whether it allows guns or not. I wouldn't like it if some non-German tries to tell us how to live our lives, and I'd imagine Americans feel the same.

I do however have a few questions and wonder if a US citizen can find some answers for me.

1) In comparison with most (if not all, but I lack the data for a definite statement) nations which have more or less the same standards of living (e.g. Western European countries), the murder and violent crime rate in the US is higher. Why? Someone already said because of the amount of illegal firearms, but then one has to ask: Why are there so many illegal firearms, and who/what is to blame for it?

2) Some of you say the areas with high per capita gun ownership rates have the lowest crimes. Now, again I have no data on that, but my common sense tells me that the areas where many people have guns are usually more rural, whereas in large cities, where crime is naturally more likely to happen, registered guns are harder to find, due to a lack of hunting or defending against wild animals. But I really don't know, so maybe someone could give an example where the violent crime in two roughly same-sized large cities with similar economic and ethnic background, but different per capita gun ownership rates can be compared.

3) Lastly, a question which always puzzled me. The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution talks about "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms." Fair enough, but what are arms? Clubs are arms, knives are arms, pitchforks are arms, muzzleloader guns are arms, automatic assault rifles are arms, tanks are arms, nukes are arms. So where does your Constitution draw a line? Why are some guns legal, but chemical weapons or anthrax aren't? Wouldn't it be unconstitutional to forbid any kind of "arms", unless that part of the constitution has to be seen in context with let's say serving in a militia or army?

[Grindel]

As a mom, my son is five, and has his own rifle, a .22 long rifle

I find this scary.

I do however also keep a 12 gauge 8 shot pump action shotgun, a .45 semi-automatic springfield, and a .38 special s&w revolver in the house as well.

What kind of an army do you expect to turn up on your doorstep and how many hands do you have to handle this arsenal?

Apart from the danger of weapons getting in the hands of childen or nutjobs, I see one big problem here:
If every other person carries a gun to defend himself, one really needs be ready to shoot someone. And the gun needs to be loaded, cocked and ready at hand. Otherwise it is useless. This is a very volatile situation, in which a slight misunderstanding can cause tragic effects.

It has a rather paranoid aspect, you arm yourself because the others are armed as well.

I would not feel safe at all in a place where there may be guns in every other person's pocket.

[Ancale]

How is it scary? He is being taught proper gun safety, and it is actually relatively normal where I live. Hunting is a big thing here, and the average family (including children) are taught to handle guns at a very young age.

I keep my shotgun and my sons rifle locked in a gun safe. My pistol is kept in a fingerprint lock box under my bed, which I can get to relatively quickly. Once I go through the classes and acquire my permit for concealed weapons, my revolver will go into my purse.

You bring up the point that you have to be ready to shoot someone. If someone threatened me, or my family, I would be willing to shoot them, but only if I needed to. I have been through training and have been handling guns since I was a child. I grew up on a ranch, and having guns was a matter of protecting not only our family, but our well being as well, as we lived in an area where coyotes and stray dogs were a threat to our livestock.

I can not personally begin to imagine if someone came and told me I could no longer have my guns. But I also do not expect everyone to be okay with it either.

[vurdijak]

I grew up in a pretty big city. Illegal guns are easy to get, and several (three) of my friends were shot. None died, but it was because they were lucky. Two who were shot had guns on them at the time (also illegal) and their guns provided no safety for them. They were ambushed and didn't have the time to fire back. Why they were ambushed is a completely different story.

The year before I got into my high school, two students were shot and one was killed by a third student's dad while trying to play a very mean prank by destroying property. The dad was 'defending his property' and not convicted of any crime.

I respect the right to bear arms, and I think guns for home defense is a good idea. But a line has to be drawn. Guns need to be harder to get for idiots. I dont know how to make a good idiot test, but tightening restrictions in some way is the only way to keep firearms out of their hands. The 'everyone carrying a gun' idea works great as long as half of the 'everyone' arent gangsters and underage teens. Unfortunately, we cant have different laws for the city and the rural areas.

Those of you who support gun rights seem to have different experiences, and maybe its because you live in different areas where the gun is rightly feared and respected.

[adanath]

As I said before and will say again and again as necessary, and Abh I will address your questions later when I have more time. The problem is the lack of enforcement on laws already in place. There are already thousands of laws regarding guns within America.

By the way you want a case-study of a big city. Look at the nations capital. Where personal firearms were banned for years. Also the place with the highest murder per capita rate in the country.

[ganandorf]

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004912.html

2006 US crime statistics